Greatest idea ever. Each package comes with 2 different figures. The dumbing of age character and the walkyverse equivalent. On separate sides of the package.
As fun as that’d be, I feel like that’d also drive figure costs up to something like $35-$40 apiece (current standard for even one figure + BAF piece is $20).
If anything there’d be two lines; a DoA line, and a Walkyverse line.
OR to drive up the nerdrage among fans, it’d be something like the main figure being Walkyverse and the DOA versions being limited variants.
Why not a complete Squad 128 vs Head alien and Monkey Master playset. Comes complete with Head Alien figure, Monkey Master figure, Squad 128, SEMME building, a few other alien figures and SEMME agent figures, and a few of SEMME’s air ships.
The more I learn about how much work and effort it is for black people to manage their “nappy type” hair, the stranger it seems to me that Sal would not GLADLY teach Joyce the tricks in working that massive length of hair just to hand off the workload.
“Seriously? You want to brush THIS hair? Fine, saves me an hour or two. Let me go borrow Dan’s Nintendo DS again.”
Your comment made my chuckle xD
I was thinking a while back that Justin and Ethan, both being nerdy gay guys with a fairly chill attitude, should stumbled into each other.
Maybe just a story arc where Justin decides to leave moperville for higher ed? :p
But, they’re two very sperate genres of “world” no hope for crossover 🙁
I need to thank you for introducing me to that comic. Just finished reading through the archives, and it really clarified some things. Also awesome comic. Thanks again.
I’m just wondering if Joyce brushing Sal’s hair with an expression of total focus and fascination might fit into Becky’s “fevered fantasy” videos folder?
I think it might just be that she’s talking to her friendly-like like a normal person, which we don’t really often see with Sal. People usually admire her too much, hate her, or are mute.
Why would Sal’s hair be any dirtier? It might have some oil build-up, but you just comb that out. And she just had her bonnet over her scalp, the rest was tied back.
fun fact: longer hair should not be washed every day or it will destroy your hair. People with short hair can get away with it cause they’re cutting it more often.
AND NOW YOU KNOW. (and knowing is half the battle of getting to brush Sal’s hair?)
Also, black hair can get away with less washes because it tends to be much drier than non-black hair. This is due to the shape of our natural hair follicles; water and sebum have a harder time lubricating and being absorbed by the entire follicle because of the coil shape. That’s why during the hair care process many people add natural oils to the hair and scalp, to assist in the moisturizing process.
So washing black hair too often can strip it of the natural and additional oils and make it even more drier whereas non-black hair types can get oily and greasy in as quickly as day or two, without washing.
Also she’s probablt wearing the bonnet to protect her hair from sweating (which could cause it to revert back to coils) and breakage (which drier hair is more prone to). I’m not sure why she doesn’t cover all of her hair though… Unless she sleeps on satin/silk pillowcase and sheets. She is a quarter mix so perhaps the middle/ends of her hair are lay more to her caucasian roots.
Oh and non black hair types have been covering their hair as well for ages. Protect that expensive, intricate hair style to make it last longer yo! Lol
We tie our hair back at night for a myriad of reasons. In my case, I have locs, so I tie my hair up to keep lint from the pillowcase from being picked up by my hair. And because some (note the some) African American hair types are dryer than Caucasian, they oil their hair at night, then tie it up so the oil will sink in overnight. And some tie their hair back so it won’t break off from the tossing and turning on the pillow.
I find it interesting that Sal would cover the crown of her hair but leave the rest uncovered, but that may be because stuffing the whole length of her hair into her bonnet is just not feasible.
that had me curious too. Maybe Sal’s roots get kinkier faster? No idea why she wouldn’t wrap, or at least cover all of her hair for maximum protection against kinking and breakage though.
That might just be everyone. I’ve been letting my hair grow out over the past year and a half; it’s past my shoulders now and I keep having people offering to do things with it.
People don’t generally mess with mine. Then again, I’ve been told that my neutral default expression resembles a murder face, and tend to get skittish when people touch my hair.
Although that’s partly true, there are words that have often been used by people with racist intent, and which are assumed by default to have racist intent. So it’s possible to use such a word without racist intent. But if those hearing you assume that you did have it, due to the fact that historically most people using that word have had it, the effect ends up much the same. So it’s a good thing to know what other people will probably *think* you meant, when employing that type of word.
I really shouldn’t have to explain that for either a nerd or a gamer. And while I might be wrong that you’re the former (Or identify as it), you’re almost definitely the latter.
Ah look,sorry if my question sounded stupid,but here in Eastern Europe we find it kind of strange that a word used against an ethnic group,is now used by that ethnic group with a different meaning. All the people i know here find it weird that they use the word which implied racism against them.
When a large group of people is systematically denigrated, that adversity can unify them. When that happens, the words used to denigrate them can become a symbol of that shared past, of their unity.
Ah, yeah, y’all are pretty homogenous ethnically. It’s worth noting that the word is often still an insult when used by the majority. In the case of the n-word, it basically always is; this is not universally true for ‘gay’, for instance, so ‘gay’ is something straight people are given a chance with.
But ultimately, it’s about how long the word was used as an insult, and how frequently it continues to be used as an insult, by the majority.
If George Carlin said it, he was bloody wrong. Intention infuses words. This is just true – it’s what ‘connotation’ ultimately is about. Sometimes (often, even!) this isn’t talking about oppression in some variant. It’s why, even if the definition seems similar, “Plague” and “illness” conjure different mental images. They mean different things. Carlin, you claim, says this rule no longer applies when racism does (Or something else, since you’re paraphrasing him). How bloody convenient for him (Or you, perhaps), that the general rules of language no longer apply when it would mean he did something racist or sexist or similar.
Though much more harmlessly on the whole – Carlin did try to do this schtick with some sexist words, but it was mostly about generic swear words – he’s still ignoring basic truths about language in the name of ratings, but that’s more understandable.
It’s kind of awkward when my friends are over and I’ve just come out of the shower. A couple of girls I hang out with like to touch my hair, now that I’m growing it out again.
Well, yes. But still, never go up to a random stranger and ask them if you can touch their hair! When it’s someone you’re intimately close with, then it’s fine obviously. But just asking a stranger, especially a PoC, ‘Can I touch your hair?’ reeks of fetishization tbh.
There was a guy who sat behind me in soc. psych class who would just randomly start playing with my hair during class and the only reason I didn’t turn around and punch him in the face was cause it was the middle of class.
But yeah he didn’t even ask, he just started messing with it. ^=__=^;; creeper
That happened to me in Fiji as a little kid, and they also pinched my very fair cheeks. My mother wouldn’t even let me protest, let alone thump anybody.
I had the same thing in a few places in my childhood, particularly Timor. I think I might have been the only white kid some of the locals had seen. I remember other kids rubbing at my skin to see of the white would come off.
OY! My Sicilian adopted family just would NOT leave my cheeks alone. It was a good thing we only saw them once every 5-10 years or so, or my face would be even stretchier than it is now.
Can’t it be both? I mean, reflexively choking people is a pretty drastic way to keep from getting pranked. But then, I’m male and have never attended a boarding school beside, so what do I know?
Seriously though, I have to wonder, how many times have we actually seen someone try to talk to Sal on an even and straight field like this? Either they’re in adoration mode, sneering judgment mode or they already know her. Becky seems to be one of the few people who are engaging Sal like an ordinary human being.
I don’t think so, but I can see it being implied in her demeanor, like the way she responds to authority, and her reaction to anything considered breaking the rules.
By the behaviour of the people who raised her and the values we’ve seen her instilled with. It’s clear that stable, well functioning and open minded member of the community is not what they were going for. Joyce was social and swallowed everything they told her without question.
…He MAY have been right. ‘Least likely to rebel’ is not the same as ‘categorically will not rebel’. Course, he might have thought they were, in which case he’d be wrong.
In the defence of others, Sal is very good at being defensive. It’s difficult to talk to someone and really get to know them when they actively avoid letting people close.
The only people who I think know much about Sal are Marcie (soul-sister who knows everything), Billie and Walky (because they’ve known eachother for years) and Jason (because Sal is talkative when drunk).
I’d say the only characters who try to approach Sal without reservation would be Marcie, Becky, Carla and maybe Danny, since he did have a bit of “oh man you’re way too cool for me” before he started tutoring her. Joyce is in squealing fangirl mode, Billie is super jealous, and her and Walky are only now starting to patch things up.
You could alternately make a smaller robot, such as Zambot, Daitarn, or Getter. I feel like Becky is optional here, since a 4 person one is not immediately occuring to me off the top of my head.
I love how Joyce’s heterosexuality is always failing in Sal’s presence. Sal is like the Ruby Rose of the DoA universe, making straight girls everywhere crazy 😉
Have you ever met a cat? That’s the least insane thing I’ve heard of one wanting to do.
Mine eats sauerkraut. Seriously, I made some, and I look over, and she’s eating it. Of all the things I’d expect a cat to eat, that wouldn’t crack the top million.
When people ask about ways to keep cats away from plants, furniture etc. you sometimes see people recommend things like hot sauce. But you just know some cats love the stuff.
Sure, cats will eat anything if you don’t want them to, just as they’ll refuse to eat what you want them to eat. If Willis would just hand his cat a brush and point at the chicken or turkey, the cat will lose all interest in brushing them.
Considering how she still adheres to a lot of the values she was raised with (“Golly, a real live atheist! Man, that’s crazy; even I’m just gay!”) I expect she’ll stick to monoamory.
So what exactly is Joyce’s obsession with Sal’s hair? For a long time I honestly thought Joyce was crushing on her but now I don’t really think that.
The only thing I can think of now is her trying to make Sal into the sister she never had. (Apart from the sister she does have but in all fairness she’s not aware of her.)
Well, Sal has very long, thick hair, and to Joyce, it probably looks like “princess hair” from fairy tale book illustrations/Disney movies. And Joyce is somewhat immature in some aspects. It might just be as innocent as Joyce wanting to be allowed to play with her hair. Honestly, if Sal lets her (which for Sal would be out of laziness, and it would probably be a comb, not a brush) Joyce would probably try to braid it with ribbons or something.
Well, Sal being what we’ve seen of her, she probably would be both nice enough and lazy enough to leave said ribbons. And then Walky would get punched in the face. Just because he couldn’t file charges and he would be the one to make the comment that set her off.
It is partially her crushing, I think, but less charitably (Though potentially less applicably), some WoC (And no this is not just a ‘black person thing) get some untoward and extremely annoying requests to play with someone’s hair because it’s exotic.
I’m not saying your read is wrong – most of what we see of Sal’s hair, she’s purposefully making it more like white people’s ideal, not an exotic other (Which is an entirely different kettle of fish, mind, but.) – A more innocent motive for Joyce is pretty understandable.
I’m tempted to go with the crush as a motive, if only because she hasn’t been shown with anywhere near this desire to touch Sarah’s hair, who actually does wear her hair natural.
Sarah also wears hers short, usually keeps it covered and is one of the tall people in the strip. It’s understandable Joyce would fawn over Sal’s air but not Sarah’s.
I think that Rutee is close to it. Joyce has probably got a very limited experience pool feminine appearances of and differing aesthetics. Because of this, Sal is probably the most exotic, mysterious and sensual person that Joyce has ever met. Naturally, she has become Joyce’s template for female independence, beauty and sexuality. Note Joyce’s attempts to imitate her when she’s having a crisis about her own femininity or independence.
I wonder what part of TN she was in? her accent reads sorta like west TN (Memphis) which is slightly different than the Nashville (middle TN) or Knoxville or Chattanooga (both east TN) accents. There isn’t as much difference between those as there is a Bronx, Brooklyn, and Westchester accent in NYC, but if you lived there you could tell the difference.
I wonder how much longer the issue is going to be danced around. Sal admitted to nearly being sent to Juvie. Becky is dating Dina who is roommates with Amber. Joyce is friends with Ethan.
I’m going to make a prediction. If, after she and Sal have to confront each other (and their shared pasts), it will be Sal who may be the most influential voice as to whether Amber even needs to be Amazi-Girl anymore.
“Y’know, you’ve helped a lot of people since you started this. Even if you don’t need to do it for y’self anymore… Maybe you should ask if you need to do it for everyone else?”
I think that you’re missing the whole point – This is meant to be AFTER
Amber and Sal come to terms with their shared pasts. I can see Amber finding it in herself to forgive Sal for being a messed up and confused kid who, in her own way, was as scared that night at the convenience store as Amber was. IMO, at least, forgiving Sal, dispelling this ridiculous image she has of her being some kind of supervillain, moving and on possibly even becoming her friend would be critical to Amber’s mental and emotional healing.
I can see Sal gesturing at the Amazi-Girl costume and saying: “So, I guess I kinda did this to you.”
Amber would reply something along the lines of: “No, I think that you were just an excuse in the end.” She’ll gesture at Sal’s scarred hand. “In truth, I think that we were both victims of both our childhoods that night.”
I really can’t see a conversation that healthy occurring between the two.
Even beyond what Sal did to Amber and Ethan, Amber then proceeded to stab her in the hand when she was already detained by the cops. I guess Sal may be a bit more willing to forgive, since she caused the whole incident, but she was still left with permanent scarring from Amber.
Basically it’s just a gigantic clusterfuck and the two should never be in the same postal code ever again.
Never happen, Amber’s already a huge ball of unstable rage and pain due to a lifetime with her father. Sal is nothing more than a trigger. A point where her emotions overwhelmed her and she finally lashed out. And naturally she’s fixated on the final straw and not the issues that made it so.
Sal isn’t to blame for Amber compartmentalizing her rage issues by wearing a weird costume, but she’s an easily definable point in time that Amber can directly pinpoint for why she feels compelled to be Amazi-Girl when in reality her thought process comes from a childhood of abuse and control from her father. She’s Amber’s Joe Chill.
If 13-year old Danny and Dorothy were there when Sal committed her robbery and Danny was taken hostage, I doubt Dorothy would feel compelled to stalk IU campus in search of ne’er-do-well, since she’d have a healthy support network in her parents allowing her to process her feelings, and more specifically, not treating her like a coward for being too scared to fight an armed robber taking her friend hostage.
Which is why it’s so important that the trigger be pulled in a scenario when Amber is unable to react with violence or evasion (which is her normal response to seeing Sal). Say, in a closed social environment. It would probably lead to a total emotional breakdown in the short term but that, in itself, may be beneficial.
In a closed social circle where it would be unacceptable to use violence I STILL think Amber would go off just like she did when she put Blaine in the hospital.
Frankly I think the only way to possibly undercut Amber’s hate for Sal would be her personally witnessing Sal being a hero, or that otherwise cuts down her understanding of Sal as her ‘archenemy.’ And an uplifting talk would just worsen things.
BenRG, there is no situation like that, when Amber gets mad she loses control and flips out, even if it’s in a very public place and she’s not being threatened. She flipped a table because Ethan said something she didn’t like, she attacked Sal even when outnumbered four to one. That’s the whole problem, Amber’s unstable she’ll never have a calm rational discussion about this subject. Ethan already told her pretty much everything Sal could say when she warned him Sal was around and I changed nothing.
The beds don’t come with ladders at IU. They are built so that the ends of the bunks can be climbed. I worked move in for a couple years, new students were always super angry about this.
I now see what you guys meant about the wide spread of pink, also ones a tough as nail southern biker chick and the other is an over grown immature mama’s doy man child whats similar about that.
Looks like I (and others) correctly guessed Sal’s problem with people coming too close to her when she slept. Yeah and she’s right to say that their upbringings mean that she and Walky are going to end up pretty different.
I wonder if Sal is fully aware that she’s currently Joyce’s template for female beauty?
I would just like to thank the Great Willis for acknowledging that juvie vs. catholic/religious boarding school isn’t actually that easy or simple of a choice… To put it succinctly, when I ran away from the “Christian” “Boarding School” I was put in, I could choose between juvie and going back. I seriously considered the 6 months of juvie in Arkansas as a viable alternative.
I really, really disagree. Should it matter to Amber why Sal did it? Is she supposed to forgive her for threatening Ethan’s life because her parents were also shitheads?
Yes. Because, if her parents weren’t shitheads, a terrified, rejected girl wouldn’t have been standing with a knife, looking for some kind of acknowledgement from them, any kind of acknowledgement from them, by trying (not very well) to stick up a convenience store.
Just as Amber is a product of others’ abuse of her, so Sal is a product of others’ abuse of her. The only difference is that Amber has chosen to beat people up under the self-justification that they’re bad people whilst Sal has taken the arguably better route of being antisocial and rebelling in innumerable basically harmless ways.
What is the thing she would learn from Sal? “You are not alone.” You see, I think that Amber really, really needs to know that she isn’t a unique screw-up. Learning that there are others who struggle with the same demons and are even further along with defeating them might give her the one thing that I don’t think she currently has – hope and belief in herself.
Oh, and Ethan’s life was never in danger. Take that to the bank. Sal probably stood there for as long as it took, holding her knife to his throat and screeching: “I’ll kill him! I swear it!” at the clerk until a policeman arrived and disarmed her with practically no effort and arrested her.
Read the strip again and look at how Willis draws her body language and facial expressions. She was a frightened little girl out of her depth and trying to be the ‘big bad criminal’ in the hope it would make her parents notice her. The thought of actually hurting someone probably would have made her retch.
I never said it wasn’t. I can’t understand why you think that I’m downplaying it! I’m not saying Sal didn’t do anything wrong, what I’m saying is that she did was comprehensible and forgivable, given the circumstances.
What I’m also saying is this:
1) Whatever crimes Sal Walkerton has committed, she’s paid the penalty, probably in advance;
2) The only person Amber O’Malley has to fear is her own violent tendencies; letting go of her fears from the past will be the first step to overcoming that and being able to function in Sal’s presence would be a huge step forward in that direction.
Look, I understand full well why Sal did it, and I agree she paid for it, but that doesn’t mean the people who were actually affected by her crime should forgive her. Ethan and Amber are fully within their rights to think of Sal as a horrible piece of shit for the rest of their lives. Even if Amber didn’t have major rage issues and wasn’t dressed up in a stupid costume she’d be allowed to think Sal is a hostage taking scumbag.
Amber needs help in a lot of ways. Forgiving her attacker is not one of them. That is such garbage.
“Forging her attacker is not one of the. That is such garbage.”
That is one thing that I could never agree with and that is why you and I look at a piece of art and interpret it in totally different ways. There is no point continuing this debate as our fundamental perspectives on the matter are too different. So, I think we should end this here as there is no constructive way forwards.
Actually, Amber is probably more in need of being forgiven -by- her attacker, since I’m pretty sure a significant portion of why she can’t cope with Sal’s presence is guilt over losing control and stabbing her in the hand when she was helpless after the fact. (which honestly, is an assault that goes way past the level of Sal’s threats towards Ethan.)
I agree with the interpretation that part of Amber’s fear of Sal is how she was driven to uncontrollable rage since a huge aspect of Amazi-Girl is “healthily” dealing with her rage issues, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that Amber needs to be forgiven by Sal.
Maybe not need to be forgiven by Sal, but possibly need to apologise to her. Not for Sal’s sake, for her own. Acknowledging that what she did was overdoing things (which she clearly knows, since it’s a red flashback) could help her with dealing with it.
I’ll say this too: Both as a computer programmer and as Amazi-Girl, Amber has to be analytical. What she wants to believe or, in fact, needs to believe is irrelevant. She knows that she has to function on fact and evidence to achieve anything constructive.
If she’s forced to conclude that Sal Walkerton isn’t such a monster after all and, whatever she’s done wrong, she’s now a very different person would require her to change how she reacts to Sal. It would hopefully remove one of the demons that haunts her. Even if they don’t become friends, at least being able to be in each other’s presence without Amber having to hide behind her mask would be a huge leap forwards for her.
Blaine would remain one, of course. I can’t see how that could change this side of his death.
No, she should try to forgive her because Sal was a stupid, confused kid, and isn’t that person anymore.
I mean, this is stupid. Amber FUCKING ATTACKED SAL FOR NO FUCKING REASON. We are /past/ her as an innocent victim. Sal should forgive this, because Amber as well is kind of a dumb kid with some understandable issues even without knowing the whole story.
Amber exploded in rage at the girl who threatened her best friend with a knife after her father shamed her into thinking she was a useless coward. That shit wouldn’t have happened had Sal not taken Ethan hostage. I agree that there’s a clear stopping point between Ethan being threatened and Amber stabbing her, but I disagree that it happened “for no reason.” Amber lost control.
Sal isn’t that person anymore; she wasn’t even that person when she actually did it, and she’s paid for what’s she done in more ways than she ever should have had to, but Amber owes her shit.
Amber doesn’t ‘owe her’ fucking shit, but if she did *STABBING HER IN THE FUCKING HAND* (which can seriously fuck you over) would more than fucking qualify. But let’s pretend this is an AU where Amber neither stabbed her in the fucking hand, or tried to pick a fight with her. I mean, it has nothing to do with the text, but LETS FUCKING PRETEND.
Justice DOES NOT BELONG IN THE HANDS OF THE INDIVIDUAL. People can easily go into vengeance modes that do not justify the ctions they take next. Rehabilitation and help are the watchwords of a USEFUL justice system. Amber isn’t owed vengeance – Vengeance is a terrible goal in its own right. I find it far more understandable when it’s used by someone marginalized, on their oppressor (Not ideal. Not great. But understandable, and something I don’t generally gainsay). What Amber was, and is, doing with Sal is lashing out at someone who isn’t an oppressor. So, even THAT level of understanding is stripped. She has NO FUCKING RIGHT to do what she did at either point.
Seriously, vigilantism (which is ultimately what you’re arguing for) is such fucking horse shit when you’re not talking about a justice system that fails the individuals and does nothing or is actvely harmful to the people who were harmed. I mean, for fuck’s sake, you’re talking about a white girl not being given enough when a black (enough) girl attacked her. In the opposite situation, maybe the law really wouldn’t provide adequate protection, but in the one that occurred? I mean, what Amber did is straight up battery – in the reversed situation, Sal could easily have been charged as an adult for fucking Attempted! But Amber got off scot free (legally). She’s hurt – I understand why she is angry at Sal. But even given plausible theoretical defenses of vigilantism, she got everything she could plausibly ask for and more from the justice system (vis a vis Sal, at least). In a theoretical world where she hadn’t ALREADY TAKEN VENGEANCE TWICE, she would STILL not have a god damn reason to keep this shit up. Like Sal? No. Want to interact with her as more thn an enemy? Not my fucking problem. But if she owes Sal something, it is a fucking apology for her actions against her – in neither case was it justified. And they both should at least forgive each other to the point of not actively seeking more vengeance.
But you know, Sal’s fucking black, and Amber’s fucking white, so this is what I ultimately fucking expect.
Okay hold the fucking phone. I’m racist because I understand why Amber lashed out? I know reading comprehension isn’t your forte, but I never once said it was okay for Amber to stab her and I never once said it was okay for Amber to hunt her down to attack her.
I understand why Amber’s angry too. But I don’t focus my gods damned posts on why her actions are okay. “I didn’t say that”? Yeah, ya fuckin’ did. You might not have meant to, but hey, guess how little that matters! By focusing on why the white girl’s violence against a black girl is ‘understandable’, without actually reprimanding that white girl in any fucking way, you fucking say what she’s doing is okay. I know why she’s angry – it’s understandable, if unfortunate. As much as society shouldn’t fucking give into it, I know that vengeance is a thing people want, and it is a human urge.
I’m not ‘bad at reading comprehension’ – you are oblivious to fucking context. You even agreed with what I said after I finished the second post. But let’s not make any bones about this – you are racist. So am I. You, the same as everyone else, absorbed the detritus of a racist fucking culture (I can’t technically be sure which precise detritus, but seeing as you’re on Earth, it’s a completely safe bet THAT you’ve picked up a fair amount). You should work against it, and do appear to be to some extent. But talking about how you ‘aren’t racist’ after you’ve said something racist (If unintentionally, which I do actually believe) is just making me shake my head, even if (as usual for someone who’s screwed up) you’re trying to recast what you did as something else entirely.
Oh my fucking God. I was focusing on Amber’s actions because this whole conversation was based on whether Amber should forgive her. We’re talking about Amber and how Amber should deal with her anger against Sal. I never once said it was okay for her to stab her, but apparently not specifying that in my first post was a fucking catastrophe, which is why I tried to focus on that after your first response. Why the fuck are you trying to decide what I’m actually saying versus what’s on the fucking page?
So I’m just going to post this by its lonesome again in case this still flew over your head: Amber stabbing Sal was not okay. It was fucking awful. I also understand that Sal was driven into performing the robbery because she was a desperate, lonely child who wanted her parents to acknowledge her. Sal is not a bad person because she committed a crime when she was thirteen.
Look, if I said anything that came off as hateful or prejudiced to you, then I am deeply sorry. But for the record, I never once said “I’m not racist”, I wanted to know what’s racist about what I said. I’d like to know because if you think what I said was racist then I want to know it and fix it because I’m not okay with spouting racist bullshit. You’re correct that, intentionally or not we all are racist in some fashion, and I’m not okay with doing that. I want to be better than that.
Let’s just not do this anymore, okay? We pretty clearly cannot have any sort of civil conversation.
“We’re talking about Amber and how Amber should deal with her anger against Sal. I never once said it was okay for her to stab her, but apparently not specifying that in my first post was a fucking catastrophe”
This should not mystify you. I’m glad you clarified later – but you know, you hadn’t.
” Why the fuck are you trying to decide what I’m actually saying versus what’s on the fucking page? ”
Because you either can’t, or won’t, acknowledge that context shapes messages, with or without your input. Unfortunately for you, you live in a world with a lot of shit – sometimes you will say stuff that reinforces things you don’t want.
“So I’m just going to post this by its lonesome again in case this still flew over your head: ”
I saw you later posted that (You know, after I posted the post you got huffy about). It did, in fact, change the tenor of my post. But the post you got huffy about? Was before that – and you got really offended at the idea that there could be a racial component to a thing that incidentally maintains something racist. That was actually a pretty small point compared to EVERYTHING ELSE about vigilantism, and justice, too.
“Look, if I said anything that came off as hateful or prejudiced to you, then I am deeply sorry. ”
I’m glad and all I guess, but more than an apology, I’d just like for you to remember what it means to talk about ‘understandability’ of violence without thinking to include something not condoning it – It is sometimes unnecessary when you’re talking with people who actually can take that as a given (Such as people who already know you), but with strangers on the net, that is not a thing that can be taken as a given.
“I never once said “I’m not racist”,
Yeah, ya did. You denied the context of what you were doing with disbelief at how something could come off as racist.. I’m glad you understand that the construction “I am not a racist” means you are probably being racist, but trying to short circuit someone pointing out a racist thing you said is not qualitatively different – it simply avoids the construction.
I feel that I should have been clearer on this, since on re-reading my post does give the impression that I’m whitewashing Amber’s acts.
Of course I think it’s awful. I can say Sal caused the situation to happen in the first place, but that doesn’t suddenly mean she deserved to be stabbed in the hand, nor was it right for Amber to do so to her. For me it’s less about which one is right and more that they both acted terribly, which I can’t really blame them for since they were both abused, scared children lashing out in an awful way. Yes, Sal did something completely, terribly awful, and I feel Amber and Ethan would be justified in hating her, but that’s just them. Sal was arrested, presumably tried, and sent off to a boarding school. She left and now she’s in college and not breaking any real laws anymore. Amber’s allowed to hate her, but I’ve never once argued that trying to beat her up in a parking lot was justified, let alone Amber stabbing her in the hand. Amber was terrified and was being browbeaten by her father and then just snapped. That’s not Sal’s fault, she just ended up being the fixation of Amber’s anger.
TLDR: I’m fine blaming Sal for the thing she actually did, ie: hostage taking and threatening Ethan with a deadly weapon, but I’m not saying Amber had any right to hurt her. I understand why she did, because Sal’s actions were reprehensible and Amber was not in her right mind, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay.
Forgiveness losing all meaning and importance when it stops becoming a choice and turns into an obligation. The whole point of forgiveness is the choice to move past it and put it behind you. Saying ‘____ should forgive ____’ is . . . Just wrong. Amber shouldn’t be punching Sal in a wal-mart parking lot regardless, but she is NOT obliged to forgive her, nor should she ever be. Just as Sal is not obliged to forgive her to jumping on her in a wal-mart parking lot and trying to beat the shit out of her and her friends.
Amber needs to forgive Sal because it’s an important part of Amber healing from the trauma and from her rage. That’s for her. She’s under no obligation to forgive Sal for Sal’s sake, but it would be an important step for her to be able to do so.
We’ve seen less of Sal’s traumas so it’s harder to say how important it would be for her.
Amber should choose of her own free will to forgive Sal, and then Amber should go around stabbing half the commenters here in the hand to remind them that Sal wasn’t the only person to misuse a knife in that encounter.
I’ll be honest I kept forgetting as I’m writing these responses myself. Like, I look back up at my examples now and ask myself, why did I not say forgive Amber for stabbing her in the hand?
Like, I earnestly believe that they are not obligated to forgive each other for that, but I’m kinda biting my lip wondering whether some racial bias was slanting my thoughts.
About the original comment, is that choice really a point against the Walkertons? I just assumed the two options of juvie or reform school were because of the judge/laws for that area.
I made that post based on the idea that Sal herself had to choose when she was thirteen. It just seems super fucked up for a child to have to make that decision, and it ties into how the Walkertons have allowed Sal to “do her own thing” for so long.
Oh, okay. I figured that might be part of it. It definitely adds to the neglect depicted earlier.
It’s definitely shitty to lay that decision on a child. The only possible defense I can think of is that the situation had to be pretty stressful for the parents as well. However, I generally* think it’s the parents’ fault when a child/youth turns to crime, especially so young. So the stress is deserved, and they can obviously handle it way better than a child can.
*I wanna say always, but I’m not an expert on any of that stuff. There’s clear neglect in this case, so my opinion is moot anyway.
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Now we all want a Sal doll…so we can brush it’s hair 🙂
Which comes with a mini pack of cigars and a motorcycle!
Oh dangit, now I want an entire 6″ DoA toyline.
Galasso is the build-a-figure for Wave 1.
Who’s the unpopular character they bundle the head with so that people have to buy it? Probably Mary or Blaine.
DOn’t forget about Toedad.
Wave 1: Galasso
Joyce (left arm)
Danny (right arm)
Dorothy (right leg)
Sarah (bat) (left leg)
Joe (head and lower torso)
Roz (upper torso)
Wave 2: Blaine
Ethan (head and lower torso)
Walky (left arm)
Billie (right arm)
Mike (left leg)
Ruth (right leg)
Jacob (upper torso)
Wave 3: Toedad
Dina (head and lower torso)
Becky (right arm)
Malaya (left arm)
Marcie(right leg)
Jason (left leg)
Amber(casual sweatshirt attire, Hugs Bosom shirt variant) (upper torso)
SDCC Exclusives:
Amazi-Girl
Sal w/Motorcycle
Greatest idea ever. Each package comes with 2 different figures. The dumbing of age character and the walkyverse equivalent. On separate sides of the package.
As fun as that’d be, I feel like that’d also drive figure costs up to something like $35-$40 apiece (current standard for even one figure + BAF piece is $20).
If anything there’d be two lines; a DoA line, and a Walkyverse line.
OR to drive up the nerdrage among fans, it’d be something like the main figure being Walkyverse and the DOA versions being limited variants.
Don’t care, take my money
I’d love just the individual dolls with some small accessory. I’m thinking the accessory being something they’d have in their room.
A bat for Sarah, a pack of cigs for Sal, a bottle of booze for Billie, a little plush dino for Dina, etc 🙂
Joyce would have a bible. Walky would have a dexter and monkey master book, and Ethan would have a transformer.
What, not a box of McNuggets for Walky?
hmm, the ayes seem to have it Willis. ~<3
I need a Head Alien and Monkey Master figure on my shelf. Kickstarter reward? I don’t know, just take my money.
Why not a complete Squad 128 vs Head alien and Monkey Master playset. Comes complete with Head Alien figure, Monkey Master figure, Squad 128, SEMME building, a few other alien figures and SEMME agent figures, and a few of SEMME’s air ships.
*heavy breathing*
Wave four:
Ruth
Billie’s femurs
Wild dogs
Also SDCC exclusive: Dina with tricaratops hoodie.
No Faz will be the bundle figure.
…as demonstrated by this handy graph…
You mean “no, Faz will” or “‘lack of Faz’?”
A lack of Faz might be more desirable. 😀
Real Dolls are pretty damn expensive.
Apparently there has been hair-&-makeup doll busts in Australia for little kids to practice making things pretty. A Sal version might be possible…
What would drive der Willis nuts is a transformer doll of each character … a Joyce doll that transforms into a car, for example.
Ruth and Billie transform and combine to form a bottle of booze?
Sarah turns into a mechanical phallus.
OH, OH! In the style of some of those old TMNT toys, Amber transforms into Amazi-Girl.
Ruth transforms into a truck?
Ouch. Too soon, man. 😛
And Ultracar I mean Carla changes into a rollerskate.
So you’re saying that Sarah’s kind of a dick?
Hot combs and chemical straighteners sold seperately.
The more I learn about how much work and effort it is for black people to manage their “nappy type” hair, the stranger it seems to me that Sal would not GLADLY teach Joyce the tricks in working that massive length of hair just to hand off the workload.
“Seriously? You want to brush THIS hair? Fine, saves me an hour or two. Let me go borrow Dan’s Nintendo DS again.”
Sal is the new Barbie. Just as perfect but more real. And milk chocolate.
Don’t forget the Kung-fu grip!
The hair compels you!
Joyce really want to brush it doesn’t she?
She needs to meet Justin over at El Goonish Shive.
Your comment made my chuckle xD
I was thinking a while back that Justin and Ethan, both being nerdy gay guys with a fairly chill attitude, should stumbled into each other.
Maybe just a story arc where Justin decides to leave moperville for higher ed? :p
But, they’re two very sperate genres of “world” no hope for crossover 🙁
Walky and Dotty need to NEVER meet the transformation fetishists that are Tedd and Grace 😛
Not to mention that Justin may or may not have a boyfriend now.
Cheerleadra and Amazigirl should team up.
That being said, I feel like Amber would love a transformation gun, to further separate her two identities.
I need to thank you for introducing me to that comic. Just finished reading through the archives, and it really clarified some things. Also awesome comic. Thanks again.
Joyce has a number of those “whispering to herself” moments it seems. Like the “Hi Ethan’s tushie, I want to touch you”.
Joyce Brown: Butt Whisperer.
Ooh, very unfortunately appropriate last name for that moniker.
Better than being a Banshee aka Screamer.
“Flubadubadub? Flubadub? dub dub flubadub?”
joyce is body-part-sexual
Control yourself, Joyce.
This is as much control that she has. Otherwise she’d try to jump Sal with a hairbrush.
And that would be… most unwise.
So according to the alt text, Willis’ cat is always trying to brush his turkey or chicken dinners? o_O lol
Well, cat tongues are kind of brushlike in effect… kind of.
I’m just wondering if Joyce brushing Sal’s hair with an expression of total focus and fascination might fit into Becky’s “fevered fantasy” videos folder?
I’m kinda worried what would happen if Sal DID let Joyce brush her hair. Joyce might get a bit too interested, & Becky may learn a new Joyce-Face…
Wow, Sal is really opening up to Becky. I think she kinda likes her, morning cheer aside.
Well Becky is a real rebel now, so that must buy her some brownie points with Sal.
I think it might just be that she’s talking to her friendly-like like a normal person, which we don’t really often see with Sal. People usually admire her too much, hate her, or are mute.
She also randomly talked about her first time, with Ethan during the game night.
It’s possible she just doesn’t really care.
I wonder if Dotty has caught Walky’s Butts disease yet?
Not sure how clean that hair is, after being in the nightcap overnight…
Why would Sal’s hair be any dirtier? It might have some oil build-up, but you just comb that out. And she just had her bonnet over her scalp, the rest was tied back.
….Wow. You don’t know much about hair care, do you?
Probably not. I only know my own and my ex-wife’s.
fun fact: longer hair should not be washed every day or it will destroy your hair. People with short hair can get away with it cause they’re cutting it more often.
AND NOW YOU KNOW. (and knowing is half the battle of getting to brush Sal’s hair?)
Also, black hair can get away with less washes because it tends to be much drier than non-black hair. This is due to the shape of our natural hair follicles; water and sebum have a harder time lubricating and being absorbed by the entire follicle because of the coil shape. That’s why during the hair care process many people add natural oils to the hair and scalp, to assist in the moisturizing process.
So washing black hair too often can strip it of the natural and additional oils and make it even more drier whereas non-black hair types can get oily and greasy in as quickly as day or two, without washing.
Also she’s probablt wearing the bonnet to protect her hair from sweating (which could cause it to revert back to coils) and breakage (which drier hair is more prone to). I’m not sure why she doesn’t cover all of her hair though… Unless she sleeps on satin/silk pillowcase and sheets. She is a quarter mix so perhaps the middle/ends of her hair are lay more to her caucasian roots.
Oh and non black hair types have been covering their hair as well for ages. Protect that expensive, intricate hair style to make it last longer yo! Lol
We tie our hair back at night for a myriad of reasons. In my case, I have locs, so I tie my hair up to keep lint from the pillowcase from being picked up by my hair. And because some (note the some) African American hair types are dryer than Caucasian, they oil their hair at night, then tie it up so the oil will sink in overnight. And some tie their hair back so it won’t break off from the tossing and turning on the pillow.
I find it interesting that Sal would cover the crown of her hair but leave the rest uncovered, but that may be because stuffing the whole length of her hair into her bonnet is just not feasible.
that had me curious too. Maybe Sal’s roots get kinkier faster? No idea why she wouldn’t wrap, or at least cover all of her hair for maximum protection against kinking and breakage though.
Brush that chicken!
Comb that turkey!
Detangle that duck!
Shave that quail!
Straighten that goose!
Mousse that pheasant!
Grease that penguin!
Slicken that swan!
All these sound like euphemisms…
As a person raised on 60s and 70s Britcoms, I would have to agree wholeheartedly.
Weirdly, I’m seeing them as WWII-era propaganda posters.
Uncle Sam wants YOU to brush that chicken!
…
Yeah, I can see it.
Maybe’s she’s born with it
Maybe it’s CAN I BRUSH IT
We’ve been through this already,but.. Hands off the monitor! It’s for your own good.
I always thought Maybelline was a brand of margarine
Joyce in the last panel is me around friends with long hair. XD
…
That might just be everyone. I’ve been letting my hair grow out over the past year and a half; it’s past my shoulders now and I keep having people offering to do things with it.
People don’t generally mess with mine. Then again, I’ve been told that my neutral default expression resembles a murder face, and tend to get skittish when people touch my hair.
Walky must have Butts disease.
YAY BUTTS!
Man, the top and front of Sal’s hair looks an awful lot like Walky’s in the last panel.
I wonder why !
*gasp*
Are you implying…they’re related?!
I mean, jeez…next thing I know you’ll be telling me they’re twins or something.
Don’t be silly. Walky’s brother is that huge guy in the sunglasses who never speaks.
Bonus points for the reference. Whatever happened to him, anyways? Is he in DoA at all?
It really is a mistery!
This is my favorite alt text
Tsk tsk, Joyce. Wanting to touch black people’s hair is super annoying.
She’s, like, quadroon. That barely counts as black.
eugh, I hope you didn’t know that this word is super-de-duper racist and steeped in slavery. Please do not use that word.
To paraphrase George Carlin, “There are no racist words. There’s racist thoughts … racist intentions …. and words.”
Although that’s partly true, there are words that have often been used by people with racist intent, and which are assumed by default to have racist intent. So it’s possible to use such a word without racist intent. But if those hearing you assume that you did have it, due to the fact that historically most people using that word have had it, the effect ends up much the same. So it’s a good thing to know what other people will probably *think* you meant, when employing that type of word.
I’m wondering though, the N word was used by white people as a bad one. So why do the African-American people use it as a term for affection?
I really shouldn’t have to explain that for either a nerd or a gamer. And while I might be wrong that you’re the former (Or identify as it), you’re almost definitely the latter.
Ah look,sorry if my question sounded stupid,but here in Eastern Europe we find it kind of strange that a word used against an ethnic group,is now used by that ethnic group with a different meaning. All the people i know here find it weird that they use the word which implied racism against them.
Look up the roots of the word ‘Iroquois’.
When a large group of people is systematically denigrated, that adversity can unify them. When that happens, the words used to denigrate them can become a symbol of that shared past, of their unity.
Ah, yeah, y’all are pretty homogenous ethnically. It’s worth noting that the word is often still an insult when used by the majority. In the case of the n-word, it basically always is; this is not universally true for ‘gay’, for instance, so ‘gay’ is something straight people are given a chance with.
But ultimately, it’s about how long the word was used as an insult, and how frequently it continues to be used as an insult, by the majority.
It’s called reclaiming a word. When a group that’s been victimised by a word takes it back and changes it’s meaning. A lot of minorities do it.
If George Carlin said it, he was bloody wrong. Intention infuses words. This is just true – it’s what ‘connotation’ ultimately is about. Sometimes (often, even!) this isn’t talking about oppression in some variant. It’s why, even if the definition seems similar, “Plague” and “illness” conjure different mental images. They mean different things. Carlin, you claim, says this rule no longer applies when racism does (Or something else, since you’re paraphrasing him). How bloody convenient for him (Or you, perhaps), that the general rules of language no longer apply when it would mean he did something racist or sexist or similar.
Rutee, it’s a direct quote from his “Seven Dirty Words” monologue; I merely plugged the word “racist” in the places where he used the word “dirty”.
Correcting myself — he used the word “bad” (as in “bad words”), not “dirty”.
Welp, guess what: Still bloody wrong.
Though much more harmlessly on the whole – Carlin did try to do this schtick with some sexist words, but it was mostly about generic swear words – he’s still ignoring basic truths about language in the name of ratings, but that’s more understandable.
White peoples only want to touch black peoples hair when it’s springy, straight hair is just boring to touch.
I’m a white guy, and my hair is curly enough that other people have wanted to touch it. 😛
I had the springy almost waterproof hair in my teen years and it was fun to bounce my own hair on it from time to time.
The best thing is shoving pencils in to curly hair.
Mine is that curly, too, but I don’t have the last few hundred years of people thinking that they own me, so it doesn’t bother me so much.
I love this comment.
It’s kind of awkward when my friends are over and I’ve just come out of the shower. A couple of girls I hang out with like to touch my hair, now that I’m growing it out again.
It’s still not ok though, no matter how ‘interesting’ it might be.
You do have to ask obviously…
Well, yes. But still, never go up to a random stranger and ask them if you can touch their hair! When it’s someone you’re intimately close with, then it’s fine obviously. But just asking a stranger, especially a PoC, ‘Can I touch your hair?’ reeks of fetishization tbh.
Well obviously, asking people you don’t know well or at all that sort of thing might be hazardous to your health.
Little old ladies have ask me if they could touch my, curly,
hair. I find it very odd but little old ladies are a pretty fearless breed.
Just as long as its not your OTHER curly hairs, that might be going a tad too far.
There was a guy who sat behind me in soc. psych class who would just randomly start playing with my hair during class and the only reason I didn’t turn around and punch him in the face was cause it was the middle of class.
But yeah he didn’t even ask, he just started messing with it. ^=__=^;; creeper
Was he related to John Key, the (ponytail-pulling) Prime Minister of New Zealand? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihReeJg08ns
I was a blond kid in subsaharan Africa. Having my hair touched was pretty damned annoying there, too.
That happened to me in Fiji as a little kid, and they also pinched my very fair cheeks. My mother wouldn’t even let me protest, let alone thump anybody.
I had the same thing in a few places in my childhood, particularly Timor. I think I might have been the only white kid some of the locals had seen. I remember other kids rubbing at my skin to see of the white would come off.
OY! My Sicilian adopted family just would NOT leave my cheeks alone. It was a good thing we only saw them once every 5-10 years or so, or my face would be even stretchier than it is now.
Wanting to touch anyone’s hair is insanely annoying.
Oh, so that’s why she chokes people. I always assumed it was just her inner fury manifesting itself.
I just figured she was the DoAVerse equivalent of Brock Samson.
She really liked Darth Vador as a kid.
Can’t it be both? I mean, reflexively choking people is a pretty drastic way to keep from getting pranked. But then, I’m male and have never attended a boarding school beside, so what do I know?
Seriously though, I have to wonder, how many times have we actually seen someone try to talk to Sal on an even and straight field like this? Either they’re in adoration mode, sneering judgment mode or they already know her. Becky seems to be one of the few people who are engaging Sal like an ordinary human being.
Kind of ironic, considering how Becky reminds us in the last panel just how much she and Walky are on the same wavelength.
And Becky’s recent… overexuberance.
That is interesting to note. I hope this turns into an awesome rebellious friendship.
I think there have been a few moments between Sal and Carla.
Also, she and Danny shared some real interaction around math and Mariocart.
And given that those two are people she actively seeks company with sometimes I think you are right.
Which is pretty much what happened with Dina too, now that you mention it.
Joyce said her pastor called her the best socialized of her group. Apparently he was wrong.
It’s pretty clear by now that one criteria for “best socialized” was “least likely to rebel”.
So, yeah, he was wrong about Joyce too.
I wouldn’t be surprised if least likely to rebel was a criteria but was that ever somehow implied in comic?
I don’t think so, but I can see it being implied in her demeanor, like the way she responds to authority, and her reaction to anything considered breaking the rules.
By the behaviour of the people who raised her and the values we’ve seen her instilled with. It’s clear that stable, well functioning and open minded member of the community is not what they were going for. Joyce was social and swallowed everything they told her without question.
Well, that’s what they assumed. Unfortunately for them, Joyce listened to EVERYTHING they told her.
And that’s why I love Joyce, she learned the actual lessons she was being taught and not just the how to not think for herself.
This is such a perfect summary of Joyce.
Joyce is awesome!
…He MAY have been right. ‘Least likely to rebel’ is not the same as ‘categorically will not rebel’. Course, he might have thought they were, in which case he’d be wrong.
It’s “criterion”.
“Criteria” is the plural form, the singular is “criterion”.
This was my immediate reaction to reading the comic. “Hey, someone’s actually talking to Sal, and doesn’t already know her or pre-judge her.”
In the defence of others, Sal is very good at being defensive. It’s difficult to talk to someone and really get to know them when they actively avoid letting people close.
The only people who I think know much about Sal are Marcie (soul-sister who knows everything), Billie and Walky (because they’ve known eachother for years) and Jason (because Sal is talkative when drunk).
I’d say the only characters who try to approach Sal without reservation would be Marcie, Becky, Carla and maybe Danny, since he did have a bit of “oh man you’re way too cool for me” before he started tutoring her. Joyce is in squealing fangirl mode, Billie is super jealous, and her and Walky are only now starting to patch things up.
Your cat wants to brush the turkey’s hair? Man, is it gonna be disappointed.
So Sal has been confirmed for Tennessee accent? Sweet. Now I know what she sounds like. 😀
What she sounds like is Applejack. 🙂
Purty much.
Welp.
THERE’s one for the future archaeologists…
I think we just found Joyce’s fetish.
We have known about Joyce’s hair and bike fetish for years now.
I’d say she wants to be Sal but, we also know she likes Dorothy’s mind and Billie’s rack.
Pretty sure if we could somehow Voltron together Sal, Billie, Becky, and Dorothy, Joyce would finally throw up her hands and switch teams.
Hmmm, need a fifth component for a Voltron, though. Sarah for being a badass? Dina for being generally adorable?
Sierra, because then they can go to church together.
You could alternately make a smaller robot, such as Zambot, Daitarn, or Getter. I feel like Becky is optional here, since a 4 person one is not immediately occuring to me off the top of my head.
She’s trying to build herself the perfect woman!
Joycinator?
So, Love & collage ?
Butts?
BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS
DAMN YOU WILLIS!
Eh, its been done.
Butt, bum, ass, tush, rump, heinie, rump
crap said rump twice
willy willy…and…tits.
Butt, bum, tush sounds like a roll on a snare drum.
Buttbuttbuttbuttbuttbuttbutt…
I love how Joyce’s heterosexuality is always failing in Sal’s presence. Sal is like the Ruby Rose of the DoA universe, making straight girls everywhere crazy 😉
I thought that was Billie’s power
I’m… Not gonna lie, she played a very real role in me realising I liked girls. So… Yeah. I think that’s accurate.
Huh. Praise be unto the Willis. And the Oum.
Why does Willis’ cat want to brush turkey or chicken?
Have you ever met a cat? That’s the least insane thing I’ve heard of one wanting to do.
Mine eats sauerkraut. Seriously, I made some, and I look over, and she’s eating it. Of all the things I’d expect a cat to eat, that wouldn’t crack the top million.
When people ask about ways to keep cats away from plants, furniture etc. you sometimes see people recommend things like hot sauce. But you just know some cats love the stuff.
Sure, cats will eat anything if you don’t want them to, just as they’ll refuse to eat what you want them to eat. If Willis would just hand his cat a brush and point at the chicken or turkey, the cat will lose all interest in brushing them.
I spent part of the summer with a kitten that loves flies.
don’t lick me with that mouth, kitty -_-.
*plays some ZZ Top on the Muzak*
Didn’t Sal used to sleep in the buff? Did she put on shorts & tee to spare Becky since they’re sharing that room?
I think Becky would get over the horror pretty quick.
I think Becky’s brains would melt and run out her ears.
We do not know, maybe it’s for Becky, maybe it’s just colder out now.
Hm. If its bc its colder, would Becky offer to keep Sal warm OR is Becky committed to her relationship with Dina?
Considering how she still adheres to a lot of the values she was raised with (“Golly, a real live atheist! Man, that’s crazy; even I’m just gay!”) I expect she’ll stick to monoamory.
No second “o” it’s just monamoury.
Sal can reinvent what Southern Belles are s’posed to be and kick naysayers to the curb.
So what exactly is Joyce’s obsession with Sal’s hair? For a long time I honestly thought Joyce was crushing on her but now I don’t really think that.
The only thing I can think of now is her trying to make Sal into the sister she never had. (Apart from the sister she does have but in all fairness she’s not aware of her.)
Well, Sal has very long, thick hair, and to Joyce, it probably looks like “princess hair” from fairy tale book illustrations/Disney movies. And Joyce is somewhat immature in some aspects. It might just be as innocent as Joyce wanting to be allowed to play with her hair. Honestly, if Sal lets her (which for Sal would be out of laziness, and it would probably be a comb, not a brush) Joyce would probably try to braid it with ribbons or something.
Add that with the catholic uniform and it would be hila-OW
OW
stop hitting me Sal !
Well, Sal being what we’ve seen of her, she probably would be both nice enough and lazy enough to leave said ribbons. And then Walky would get punched in the face. Just because he couldn’t file charges and he would be the one to make the comment that set her off.
Imagine if Joyce were to meet Tamaura from “Blindsprings”.
Joyce would be the RL equivalent of the “heart-eyes” emoji
It is partially her crushing, I think, but less charitably (Though potentially less applicably), some WoC (And no this is not just a ‘black person thing) get some untoward and extremely annoying requests to play with someone’s hair because it’s exotic.
I’m not saying your read is wrong – most of what we see of Sal’s hair, she’s purposefully making it more like white people’s ideal, not an exotic other (Which is an entirely different kettle of fish, mind, but.) – A more innocent motive for Joyce is pretty understandable.
I’m tempted to go with the crush as a motive, if only because she hasn’t been shown with anywhere near this desire to touch Sarah’s hair, who actually does wear her hair natural.
Sarah also wears hers short, usually keeps it covered and is one of the tall people in the strip. It’s understandable Joyce would fawn over Sal’s air but not Sarah’s.
I think that Rutee is close to it. Joyce has probably got a very limited experience pool feminine appearances of and differing aesthetics. Because of this, Sal is probably the most exotic, mysterious and sensual person that Joyce has ever met. Naturally, she has become Joyce’s template for female independence, beauty and sexuality. Note Joyce’s attempts to imitate her when she’s having a crisis about her own femininity or independence.
Your cat wants to brush the turkey?
I wonder what part of TN she was in? her accent reads sorta like west TN (Memphis) which is slightly different than the Nashville (middle TN) or Knoxville or Chattanooga (both east TN) accents. There isn’t as much difference between those as there is a Bronx, Brooklyn, and Westchester accent in NYC, but if you lived there you could tell the difference.
Sal in panel one = Grace in full tri-squirrel mode.
Tedd approves of this !
I wonder how much longer the issue is going to be danced around. Sal admitted to nearly being sent to Juvie. Becky is dating Dina who is roommates with Amber. Joyce is friends with Ethan.
The past catches up with you eventually.
Oh there certainly will be some sort of confrontation…and it’s going to be rather interesting to see how they all handle it.
I am sure there will be lots of angst.
I’m going to make a prediction. If, after she and Sal have to confront each other (and their shared pasts), it will be Sal who may be the most influential voice as to whether Amber even needs to be Amazi-Girl anymore.
Sal threatened to stab Ethan in the throat. I sincerely doubt anything she could say would help Amber.
“Y’know, you’ve helped a lot of people since you started this. Even if you don’t need to do it for y’self anymore… Maybe you should ask if you need to do it for everyone else?”
“That’s a great platitude but you also took my best friend hostage and held a knife to his throat.”
I think that you’re missing the whole point – This is meant to be AFTER
Amber and Sal come to terms with their shared pasts. I can see Amber finding it in herself to forgive Sal for being a messed up and confused kid who, in her own way, was as scared that night at the convenience store as Amber was. IMO, at least, forgiving Sal, dispelling this ridiculous image she has of her being some kind of supervillain, moving and on possibly even becoming her friend would be critical to Amber’s mental and emotional healing.
I can see Sal gesturing at the Amazi-Girl costume and saying: “So, I guess I kinda did this to you.”
Amber would reply something along the lines of: “No, I think that you were just an excuse in the end.” She’ll gesture at Sal’s scarred hand. “In truth, I think that we were both victims of both our childhoods that night.”
I really can’t see a conversation that healthy occurring between the two.
Even beyond what Sal did to Amber and Ethan, Amber then proceeded to stab her in the hand when she was already detained by the cops. I guess Sal may be a bit more willing to forgive, since she caused the whole incident, but she was still left with permanent scarring from Amber.
Basically it’s just a gigantic clusterfuck and the two should never be in the same postal code ever again.
Maybe I’m a little more optimistic than you and believe that, with a little effort, there can be healing.
I don’t think healing should come from your attacker.
Never happen, Amber’s already a huge ball of unstable rage and pain due to a lifetime with her father. Sal is nothing more than a trigger. A point where her emotions overwhelmed her and she finally lashed out. And naturally she’s fixated on the final straw and not the issues that made it so.
I think that’s a great summary of Amber.
Sal isn’t to blame for Amber compartmentalizing her rage issues by wearing a weird costume, but she’s an easily definable point in time that Amber can directly pinpoint for why she feels compelled to be Amazi-Girl when in reality her thought process comes from a childhood of abuse and control from her father. She’s Amber’s Joe Chill.
If 13-year old Danny and Dorothy were there when Sal committed her robbery and Danny was taken hostage, I doubt Dorothy would feel compelled to stalk IU campus in search of ne’er-do-well, since she’d have a healthy support network in her parents allowing her to process her feelings, and more specifically, not treating her like a coward for being too scared to fight an armed robber taking her friend hostage.
Which is why it’s so important that the trigger be pulled in a scenario when Amber is unable to react with violence or evasion (which is her normal response to seeing Sal). Say, in a closed social environment. It would probably lead to a total emotional breakdown in the short term but that, in itself, may be beneficial.
In a closed social circle where it would be unacceptable to use violence I STILL think Amber would go off just like she did when she put Blaine in the hospital.
Frankly I think the only way to possibly undercut Amber’s hate for Sal would be her personally witnessing Sal being a hero, or that otherwise cuts down her understanding of Sal as her ‘archenemy.’ And an uplifting talk would just worsen things.
BenRG, there is no situation like that, when Amber gets mad she loses control and flips out, even if it’s in a very public place and she’s not being threatened. She flipped a table because Ethan said something she didn’t like, she attacked Sal even when outnumbered four to one. That’s the whole problem, Amber’s unstable she’ll never have a calm rational discussion about this subject. Ethan already told her pretty much everything Sal could say when she warned him Sal was around and I changed nothing.
So they start fighting…
“You took my friend hostage!”
“You took my hand (but it got better)!”
“You took my sanity!”
“You took….my heart.”
And then they kiss.
(Hey, someone here did say they always thought of Sal as DoA’s Brock Samson.)
And then they end up in one of the most epic hatefucks.
Mike films it and posts it online. The Dean is not amused.
She’ll need to cut out Amber’s eye first.
that river of chocolate hair, seriously.
So Sal doesn’t use a ladder either, eh.
One more similarity with Amber 🙂
The beds don’t come with ladders at IU. They are built so that the ends of the bunks can be climbed. I worked move in for a couple years, new students were always super angry about this.
Oh, so that’s how Joyce got up then.
Y’know, I wonder how long it’ll be before someone makes Joyce’s reaction in the last panel into a gravatar.
Someone must have made it by now.
I now see what you guys meant about the wide spread of pink, also ones a tough as nail southern biker chick and the other is an over grown immature mama’s doy man child whats similar about that.
Joyce’s out in a trance again.
Also, Walky probably wouldn’t manage to pull off drag, so “belle” was probably off for him even if you could bully him into trying.
Looks like I (and others) correctly guessed Sal’s problem with people coming too close to her when she slept. Yeah and she’s right to say that their upbringings mean that she and Walky are going to end up pretty different.
I wonder if Sal is fully aware that she’s currently Joyce’s template for female beauty?
I would just like to thank the Great Willis for acknowledging that juvie vs. catholic/religious boarding school isn’t actually that easy or simple of a choice… To put it succinctly, when I ran away from the “Christian” “Boarding School” I was put in, I could choose between juvie and going back. I seriously considered the 6 months of juvie in Arkansas as a viable alternative.
Anyone ever realize that Sal’s Tarantugun tattoo probably means she’s still a closet D&MM fan?
Walky did say they used to watch it together when they were kids.
Also, according to Panel 2 Sal, at age 13, had the choice of going to juvie or to a boarding school.
That’s messed up. I didn’t think the Walkerton parents could get any scummier yet here we are.
It’s things like that that make me say that Amber and Sal have a lot in common and, quite possibly, a lot that they could learn from each other.
I really, really disagree. Should it matter to Amber why Sal did it? Is she supposed to forgive her for threatening Ethan’s life because her parents were also shitheads?
Yes. Because, if her parents weren’t shitheads, a terrified, rejected girl wouldn’t have been standing with a knife, looking for some kind of acknowledgement from them, any kind of acknowledgement from them, by trying (not very well) to stick up a convenience store.
Just as Amber is a product of others’ abuse of her, so Sal is a product of others’ abuse of her. The only difference is that Amber has chosen to beat people up under the self-justification that they’re bad people whilst Sal has taken the arguably better route of being antisocial and rebelling in innumerable basically harmless ways.
What is the thing she would learn from Sal? “You are not alone.” You see, I think that Amber really, really needs to know that she isn’t a unique screw-up. Learning that there are others who struggle with the same demons and are even further along with defeating them might give her the one thing that I don’t think she currently has – hope and belief in herself.
That’s a really good reading of it
Oh, and Ethan’s life was never in danger. Take that to the bank. Sal probably stood there for as long as it took, holding her knife to his throat and screeching: “I’ll kill him! I swear it!” at the clerk until a policeman arrived and disarmed her with practically no effort and arrested her.
Read the strip again and look at how Willis draws her body language and facial expressions. She was a frightened little girl out of her depth and trying to be the ‘big bad criminal’ in the hope it would make her parents notice her. The thought of actually hurting someone probably would have made her retch.
If somebody forcibly grabbed me and held a knife to my throat, “I didn’t mean it” isn’t going to cut it.
I know she was frightened and lonely but Jesus Christ. Do not try and pretend it wasn’t fucking terrible.
I never said it wasn’t. I can’t understand why you think that I’m downplaying it! I’m not saying Sal didn’t do anything wrong, what I’m saying is that she did was comprehensible and forgivable, given the circumstances.
What I’m also saying is this:
1) Whatever crimes Sal Walkerton has committed, she’s paid the penalty, probably in advance;
2) The only person Amber O’Malley has to fear is her own violent tendencies; letting go of her fears from the past will be the first step to overcoming that and being able to function in Sal’s presence would be a huge step forward in that direction.
Look, I understand full well why Sal did it, and I agree she paid for it, but that doesn’t mean the people who were actually affected by her crime should forgive her. Ethan and Amber are fully within their rights to think of Sal as a horrible piece of shit for the rest of their lives. Even if Amber didn’t have major rage issues and wasn’t dressed up in a stupid costume she’d be allowed to think Sal is a hostage taking scumbag.
Amber needs help in a lot of ways. Forgiving her attacker is not one of them. That is such garbage.
“Forging her attacker is not one of the. That is such garbage.”
That is one thing that I could never agree with and that is why you and I look at a piece of art and interpret it in totally different ways. There is no point continuing this debate as our fundamental perspectives on the matter are too different. So, I think we should end this here as there is no constructive way forwards.
Agreed. I think we just view this too differently.
Actually, Amber is probably more in need of being forgiven -by- her attacker, since I’m pretty sure a significant portion of why she can’t cope with Sal’s presence is guilt over losing control and stabbing her in the hand when she was helpless after the fact. (which honestly, is an assault that goes way past the level of Sal’s threats towards Ethan.)
I agree with the interpretation that part of Amber’s fear of Sal is how she was driven to uncontrollable rage since a huge aspect of Amazi-Girl is “healthily” dealing with her rage issues, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that Amber needs to be forgiven by Sal.
Maybe not need to be forgiven by Sal, but possibly need to apologise to her. Not for Sal’s sake, for her own. Acknowledging that what she did was overdoing things (which she clearly knows, since it’s a red flashback) could help her with dealing with it.
Aaaaand that matters to Amber how?
It’s a lot harder to live in fear of a monster when you know that she isn’t a monster at all and never was, at that.
She’s not living in fear, she’s living in rage. Even seeing Walky sets her off.
I’ll say this too: Both as a computer programmer and as Amazi-Girl, Amber has to be analytical. What she wants to believe or, in fact, needs to believe is irrelevant. She knows that she has to function on fact and evidence to achieve anything constructive.
If she’s forced to conclude that Sal Walkerton isn’t such a monster after all and, whatever she’s done wrong, she’s now a very different person would require her to change how she reacts to Sal. It would hopefully remove one of the demons that haunts her. Even if they don’t become friends, at least being able to be in each other’s presence without Amber having to hide behind her mask would be a huge leap forwards for her.
Blaine would remain one, of course. I can’t see how that could change this side of his death.
No, she should try to forgive her because Sal was a stupid, confused kid, and isn’t that person anymore.
I mean, this is stupid. Amber FUCKING ATTACKED SAL FOR NO FUCKING REASON. We are /past/ her as an innocent victim. Sal should forgive this, because Amber as well is kind of a dumb kid with some understandable issues even without knowing the whole story.
Yeah, that too.
Amber exploded in rage at the girl who threatened her best friend with a knife after her father shamed her into thinking she was a useless coward. That shit wouldn’t have happened had Sal not taken Ethan hostage. I agree that there’s a clear stopping point between Ethan being threatened and Amber stabbing her, but I disagree that it happened “for no reason.” Amber lost control.
Sal isn’t that person anymore; she wasn’t even that person when she actually did it, and she’s paid for what’s she done in more ways than she ever should have had to, but Amber owes her shit.
Although I should specify that, more than anything, Amber getting enraged enough to actually attack Sal is on Blaine stirring the pot.
Amber doesn’t ‘owe her’ fucking shit, but if she did *STABBING HER IN THE FUCKING HAND* (which can seriously fuck you over) would more than fucking qualify. But let’s pretend this is an AU where Amber neither stabbed her in the fucking hand, or tried to pick a fight with her. I mean, it has nothing to do with the text, but LETS FUCKING PRETEND.
Justice DOES NOT BELONG IN THE HANDS OF THE INDIVIDUAL. People can easily go into vengeance modes that do not justify the ctions they take next. Rehabilitation and help are the watchwords of a USEFUL justice system. Amber isn’t owed vengeance – Vengeance is a terrible goal in its own right. I find it far more understandable when it’s used by someone marginalized, on their oppressor (Not ideal. Not great. But understandable, and something I don’t generally gainsay). What Amber was, and is, doing with Sal is lashing out at someone who isn’t an oppressor. So, even THAT level of understanding is stripped. She has NO FUCKING RIGHT to do what she did at either point.
Seriously, vigilantism (which is ultimately what you’re arguing for) is such fucking horse shit when you’re not talking about a justice system that fails the individuals and does nothing or is actvely harmful to the people who were harmed. I mean, for fuck’s sake, you’re talking about a white girl not being given enough when a black (enough) girl attacked her. In the opposite situation, maybe the law really wouldn’t provide adequate protection, but in the one that occurred? I mean, what Amber did is straight up battery – in the reversed situation, Sal could easily have been charged as an adult for fucking Attempted! But Amber got off scot free (legally). She’s hurt – I understand why she is angry at Sal. But even given plausible theoretical defenses of vigilantism, she got everything she could plausibly ask for and more from the justice system (vis a vis Sal, at least). In a theoretical world where she hadn’t ALREADY TAKEN VENGEANCE TWICE, she would STILL not have a god damn reason to keep this shit up. Like Sal? No. Want to interact with her as more thn an enemy? Not my fucking problem. But if she owes Sal something, it is a fucking apology for her actions against her – in neither case was it justified. And they both should at least forgive each other to the point of not actively seeking more vengeance.
But you know, Sal’s fucking black, and Amber’s fucking white, so this is what I ultimately fucking expect.
Okay hold the fucking phone. I’m racist because I understand why Amber lashed out? I know reading comprehension isn’t your forte, but I never once said it was okay for Amber to stab her and I never once said it was okay for Amber to hunt her down to attack her.
I understand why Amber’s angry too. But I don’t focus my gods damned posts on why her actions are okay. “I didn’t say that”? Yeah, ya fuckin’ did. You might not have meant to, but hey, guess how little that matters! By focusing on why the white girl’s violence against a black girl is ‘understandable’, without actually reprimanding that white girl in any fucking way, you fucking say what she’s doing is okay. I know why she’s angry – it’s understandable, if unfortunate. As much as society shouldn’t fucking give into it, I know that vengeance is a thing people want, and it is a human urge.
I’m not ‘bad at reading comprehension’ – you are oblivious to fucking context. You even agreed with what I said after I finished the second post. But let’s not make any bones about this – you are racist. So am I. You, the same as everyone else, absorbed the detritus of a racist fucking culture (I can’t technically be sure which precise detritus, but seeing as you’re on Earth, it’s a completely safe bet THAT you’ve picked up a fair amount). You should work against it, and do appear to be to some extent. But talking about how you ‘aren’t racist’ after you’ve said something racist (If unintentionally, which I do actually believe) is just making me shake my head, even if (as usual for someone who’s screwed up) you’re trying to recast what you did as something else entirely.
Oh my fucking God. I was focusing on Amber’s actions because this whole conversation was based on whether Amber should forgive her. We’re talking about Amber and how Amber should deal with her anger against Sal. I never once said it was okay for her to stab her, but apparently not specifying that in my first post was a fucking catastrophe, which is why I tried to focus on that after your first response. Why the fuck are you trying to decide what I’m actually saying versus what’s on the fucking page?
So I’m just going to post this by its lonesome again in case this still flew over your head: Amber stabbing Sal was not okay. It was fucking awful. I also understand that Sal was driven into performing the robbery because she was a desperate, lonely child who wanted her parents to acknowledge her. Sal is not a bad person because she committed a crime when she was thirteen.
Look, if I said anything that came off as hateful or prejudiced to you, then I am deeply sorry. But for the record, I never once said “I’m not racist”, I wanted to know what’s racist about what I said. I’d like to know because if you think what I said was racist then I want to know it and fix it because I’m not okay with spouting racist bullshit. You’re correct that, intentionally or not we all are racist in some fashion, and I’m not okay with doing that. I want to be better than that.
Let’s just not do this anymore, okay? We pretty clearly cannot have any sort of civil conversation.
“We’re talking about Amber and how Amber should deal with her anger against Sal. I never once said it was okay for her to stab her, but apparently not specifying that in my first post was a fucking catastrophe”
This should not mystify you. I’m glad you clarified later – but you know, you hadn’t.
” Why the fuck are you trying to decide what I’m actually saying versus what’s on the fucking page? ”
Because you either can’t, or won’t, acknowledge that context shapes messages, with or without your input. Unfortunately for you, you live in a world with a lot of shit – sometimes you will say stuff that reinforces things you don’t want.
“So I’m just going to post this by its lonesome again in case this still flew over your head: ”
I saw you later posted that (You know, after I posted the post you got huffy about). It did, in fact, change the tenor of my post. But the post you got huffy about? Was before that – and you got really offended at the idea that there could be a racial component to a thing that incidentally maintains something racist. That was actually a pretty small point compared to EVERYTHING ELSE about vigilantism, and justice, too.
“Look, if I said anything that came off as hateful or prejudiced to you, then I am deeply sorry. ”
I’m glad and all I guess, but more than an apology, I’d just like for you to remember what it means to talk about ‘understandability’ of violence without thinking to include something not condoning it – It is sometimes unnecessary when you’re talking with people who actually can take that as a given (Such as people who already know you), but with strangers on the net, that is not a thing that can be taken as a given.
“I never once said “I’m not racist”,
Yeah, ya did. You denied the context of what you were doing with disbelief at how something could come off as racist.. I’m glad you understand that the construction “I am not a racist” means you are probably being racist, but trying to short circuit someone pointing out a racist thing you said is not qualitatively different – it simply avoids the construction.
I feel that I should have been clearer on this, since on re-reading my post does give the impression that I’m whitewashing Amber’s acts.
Of course I think it’s awful. I can say Sal caused the situation to happen in the first place, but that doesn’t suddenly mean she deserved to be stabbed in the hand, nor was it right for Amber to do so to her. For me it’s less about which one is right and more that they both acted terribly, which I can’t really blame them for since they were both abused, scared children lashing out in an awful way. Yes, Sal did something completely, terribly awful, and I feel Amber and Ethan would be justified in hating her, but that’s just them. Sal was arrested, presumably tried, and sent off to a boarding school. She left and now she’s in college and not breaking any real laws anymore. Amber’s allowed to hate her, but I’ve never once argued that trying to beat her up in a parking lot was justified, let alone Amber stabbing her in the hand. Amber was terrified and was being browbeaten by her father and then just snapped. That’s not Sal’s fault, she just ended up being the fixation of Amber’s anger.
TLDR: I’m fine blaming Sal for the thing she actually did, ie: hostage taking and threatening Ethan with a deadly weapon, but I’m not saying Amber had any right to hurt her. I understand why she did, because Sal’s actions were reprehensible and Amber was not in her right mind, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay.
Forgiveness losing all meaning and importance when it stops becoming a choice and turns into an obligation. The whole point of forgiveness is the choice to move past it and put it behind you. Saying ‘____ should forgive ____’ is . . . Just wrong. Amber shouldn’t be punching Sal in a wal-mart parking lot regardless, but she is NOT obliged to forgive her, nor should she ever be. Just as Sal is not obliged to forgive her to jumping on her in a wal-mart parking lot and trying to beat the shit out of her and her friends.
Amber needs to forgive Sal because it’s an important part of Amber healing from the trauma and from her rage. That’s for her. She’s under no obligation to forgive Sal for Sal’s sake, but it would be an important step for her to be able to do so.
We’ve seen less of Sal’s traumas so it’s harder to say how important it would be for her.
Amber should choose of her own free will to forgive Sal, and then Amber should go around stabbing half the commenters here in the hand to remind them that Sal wasn’t the only person to misuse a knife in that encounter.
I’ll be honest I kept forgetting as I’m writing these responses myself. Like, I look back up at my examples now and ask myself, why did I not say forgive Amber for stabbing her in the hand?
Like, I earnestly believe that they are not obligated to forgive each other for that, but I’m kinda biting my lip wondering whether some racial bias was slanting my thoughts.
About the original comment, is that choice really a point against the Walkertons? I just assumed the two options of juvie or reform school were because of the judge/laws for that area.
I made that post based on the idea that Sal herself had to choose when she was thirteen. It just seems super fucked up for a child to have to make that decision, and it ties into how the Walkertons have allowed Sal to “do her own thing” for so long.
Oh, okay. I figured that might be part of it. It definitely adds to the neglect depicted earlier.
It’s definitely shitty to lay that decision on a child. The only possible defense I can think of is that the situation had to be pretty stressful for the parents as well. However, I generally* think it’s the parents’ fault when a child/youth turns to crime, especially so young. So the stress is deserved, and they can obviously handle it way better than a child can.
*I wanna say always, but I’m not an expert on any of that stuff. There’s clear neglect in this case, so my opinion is moot anyway.
I didn’t realize it until this comic, but apparently I’ve been giving some DoA characters MLP voices in my head.
Sal = Applejack
Joyce = Fluttershy
Becky = Rainbow Dash
Dorothy = Twilight Sparkle
Danny = Spike
Nah!
Danny = Flash Sentry
Walky = Soarin
Ethan = Shining Armour
Amber = Princess Luna
Amazi-Girl = Nightmare Moon
Okay, those I can see. The guys anyway. I’ll stick with my own voices, but those work.
Sal will always and forever use a variant of Ashleigh Ball’s Applejack voice, though.
Does that make Leslie = Princess Celestia?
Dear Professor Bean, today learned a valuable lesson about how society enforces gender roles today.
Dang, it’s incredible to see in the first panel how far the art has come from even Shortpacked! … it’s kind of beautiful.
I always imagined Walky with Wybie’s voice from Coraline.
Thank goodness the blue is back.
Apparently, Butt’s Disease has not yet spread to Tennessee.
3rd panel Becky looks like a blow-up doll.
Don’t give Willis marketing ideas.
Last panel Joyce looks like she needs a cold shower.
Damn, sal’s hair is sexy when it’s 8 kinds of mess