I was kind of envisaging the story going back to Joyce and Ethan & Danny for awhile, then ending with Dina bringing a nicely tied up ToeDad to Ruth – “This was delivered to Becky by mistake. Please return it.”
But this is a Dina chapter and would miss all the drama. 🙁
Happy Birthday Jen Aside! Your comments are a surprisingly large part of why I love this comic so much! [I’m also catching up after a couple of weeks, and just realised I’m commenting long after your birthday. No matter, happy many days after your birthday as well.]
Looks menacingly powerful, but I also get the impression that he has to fight hard to not fall over all the time. Well, moreso than your typical human.
He also looks more like a militia anti-government conspiracy guy than an actual ‘fundie’ like Joyce’s parents. Anyone else surprised and also more curious about what Joyce’s family’s private circle under their pastor is really like, as opposed to the stereotypical whitebread ‘fundies’ with fear and control issues i.e. all like Mr. and Mrs Brown, at least a fraction of us were assuming? Even if I’m making (decent probability) prejudice assumptions based on the plain white t-shirt, camo pants, and ‘character’ build and body language….The seems like Joyce and Becky’s family’s church family isn’t as conformist as Ma & Pa Brown made them seem…Not all ‘fringe’ types are left-wing or even moderate, after all.
Really? He looks very short to me. Just burly…Possibly because he’s so short and squat. But yes, he does look very strong. The question is, how much self-control does he have when things get as bad for his side of things as they have?
Huh, didn’t realize Dina’s father was brother to the Narrator from Rocky Horror Picture Show. To quote the classic callback line: “That man has no neck!”
It chews trough ammo magazines quicker then then the targets hits the ground so i opt for the tactical combat knife instead(takes with me the PX4 STORM just in case)
Sure, until that dorito thing looks at them in the eyes, hisses a little and all the raptors go attacking the questioning meeting and evolutionists while screeching something that resembles “we’re just fictional animals, you have no proof we ever existed”.
OUr Lord and Savior Willis installed that auto-replace after a certain strip with Roz saying something inflammatory and being called a female dog by about 3/4 of commentors.
Eff it, Claymore mine taped to his belly. And no, it doesn’t matter which way it is pointed as long as the wide end is on the belly. They are lethal 5 meters to the rear or 20 meters to the front. There will be a gaping hole either way.
Guys, guys. I get that he’s not the best dad, but him showing up suggests that he cares enough to keep trying to be a dad. That counts for something, right?
Obviously he’s being kind of an asshole about it, but we haven’t actually heard from him yet. I like your taste in hardware, but let’s see what he has to say before we break it out, hmm?
Granted, I was halfway through a post involving field mortars and a flamethrower when I considered this…
Him showing up is less of a sign that he cares enough to be a dad, but rather that that is the lengths he’ll go to to impose control over his daughter’s life. While my circumstances were rather different, I know, sadly personally, how utterly shitty and paranoia inducing it can be to have a dad willing to devote that much time to breaking any form of stability you have in order to gain a position of power through which to force reparative therapy.
It’s a rather different feeling from having someone care about you like you are a human being.
He can say what he has to say as long as he doesn’t cross several invisible dotted lines within about five feet of where he’s standing (the only non-forbidden zone being a direct path back to his car). If he does, well, there might be consequences.
It can still be fun. He’s just looking for Joyce so he can find out if she knows where Becky might be, right? No more than that, just some fun wacky hijinks.
And finding her at a Questioning meet isn’t going to cause any problems. Nuh-uh.
(okay, this could go all kinds of wrong for Becky. and Joyce. and Ruth. and Billie. um. unless Willis is lining Galasso up for a beatdown?)
Becky’s dad isn’t on the authorized guest list, so there’s certainly a strong probability that Ruth will do something grisly involving his femurs. Or at least I certainly hope that’s where this is going.
Is he at the Questioning Meet? I think he’s in the lobby outside, on his way either to talk with Joyce on her parents’ tip or to track down Becky’s mobile phone with a locator app.
Emotional Responses to Today’s Comic Panel by Panel:
Panel 1: Heh, evilutionist, that takes me back… Also, Joyce still being terrible at hiding any form of secret ever… huh, I wonder when that’ll bite her in the ass…
Panel 2: Dina is the best.
Panel 3: Awwww, so many compersion feels. Dina exploring romantic attraction is so utterly adorable. They are going to be the cutest couple together!
Panel 4: Yesss, more fodder for my ace spectrum Dina theory! This is the cutest comic yet this arc, nothing could spoil it. Wait, what just came out of my mouth? No, I didn’t mean it-
On a serious note, this hammer was going to drop eventually. It was all just a matter of when and by the Rule of Willis, it makes sad sense that it would occur at the moment when Becky’s life was most in its upswing (best friend supporting and being emotionally honest with her, cute dino girl wanting her giblets, semi-permanent housing solution, probably working on employment or college enrollment steps based on the hints Joyce has been dropping). As such, this was probably the most dramatic time to drop that and it makes sense that it would be sooner rather than later as Joyce’s attempts to stonewall her parents had to have raised all sorts of red flags for them.
And the RA may have to kick her oout, but there’s no way Ruth would let her dad drag her away. She would probably call for Lez, and SHE would say ‘Noooooope. Here’s a shelter.’
Amazi-girl might be due to lose another fight. She was too busy freaking out over Dorothy outing Amber as her secret identity to be terribly bothered over Sal’s crew knocking her down, and I have a suspicion that Ross/Toedad is willing to hit a girl if she’s getting belligerent at him (as, let’s face, it, Amazi-girl does get at assholes she intends to hurt) and strong enough to seriously mess her up if he lands a solid hit somehow.
Panel 1: Oh, Joyce, you so adorable, and you fight so hard to be accepting.
Panel 2: Don’t worry Joyce, you just need time to reboot, and I kinda think you are just a tiny bit jealous of Dina. She will give Becky all the mouth-smooches you couldn’t (for no fault of your own, but it must still hurt).
Panel 3: Awww. Cute Dina is cute. I love how self aware and analytic her inner dialogue is. Also that it’s not a Danny-level hearwrenching battle with her emotions, more like an idle curiosity.
Panel 4: Heh, methinks Dina is getting herself a new hobby (and I don’t mean baseball). Becky clearly made an impression, far more than just being the girl who invited her to a party, the girl who asked her about dinosaurs and the girl she smooched to make a point. There is some real chemistry at work here.
Brain: Yup, we are done.
Me: What? No, there is a panel left.
Brain: Nope, nothing to see here. Go and read TVtropes or something.
Me: OK, now you’re just being silly. Scoot over and let me…
For all of you kids that are curious, Third Base is when you feel comfortable enough to fart around them.
4th Base is when you go to their niece’s shitty elementary school play and stay awake and attentive the entire time without complaining.
A home run is when you stop caring when they eat off your plate even though you asked them if they wanted something and they said “just a salad” yet half your steak’s gone isn’t it?
I was wondering when HE would show up, but I would have never have guessed it would be so soon, will he be the iceberg that will sink the maiden voyage of the USS Dicky?
We’re either gonna get an epic verbal beatdown Becky’s dad soon-ish, or he’s here to find out if Joyce knows anything about where Becky is. Good thing Becky moved out of that room, huh? “No, Mr. Becky’s Dad, she’s NOT here. Search the room yourself, then get lost.”
My computer does this thing where it gets rid of blue light in the evening, which makes colors a little funky sometimes, and as a result I legitimately thought he was wearing fuzzy blue pajama pants until this morning.
*opens computer*
*goes to DoA*
*sees pajama pants in broad daylight*
“OHHHHHHHHHH so THAT’S what he’s wearing!”
I mean seriously did he go to sleep in those clothes and was just in a rush? Or does he always dress like he’s just broken out of jail? Does he ever get sad at the prospect of being central casting for “domestic abuser who the hero beats up to impress the audience”? Why would his wife let him go in public looking like that?
although we can’t assume taste to be the most prominent sense of a woman who married swamp-thing, i would like to think that his wife would have stopped him had she been there. but as becky said, it’s “just [her] dad” so it’s either divorce or illness. i assume illness, since they are fairly christian, and also since becky was left with…that.
Considering custody disputes usually lean in favor of the mother, I shudder to think of what the mom had to have been like for fucking Bob Ewell over there to have won.
If I remember correct, US child custody cases only lean in the mother’s favour in some cases. The mother most often ends up with the child when the matter is settled out of court, or if neither parent wants the child. If both parents want custody of the child, the father usually wins in court.
Yeah, got to agree with Eukie here. I know someone who’s currently in a custody dispute with her soon-to-be ex husband, who is ABUSIVE, over her two teenage children. It’s currently going largely his way.
Can we tell that from his zero lines of dialogue so far? (Well the implied lines of dialogue he had are somewhere along the lines of “You’re going to a pray the gay away camp.” That’s not really a parody)
Ah, I never did read the J&W subscription strips. (And I don’t believe he appeared outside those). I was just confused as to where the OP was getting parody from his character because so far his defining trait seems to be having control over his daughter’s life. That’s pretty serious.
Actually, he strikes me as a MilDad, so far – I’ve seen the type. Ex-military (possibly a reservist), patriotic, conservative, often religious, very strictly orthodox uhMERcun in just about everything he does. Probably requires the same of his daughter.
That guy is built like a brick shithouse. He also looks like a brick shithouse. I’m sure he smells like a brick shithouse. By that logic he probably also tastes like a brick shithouse, although I doubt anyone would want to try. And I’m not too sure if he’d Feel like a brick shithouse but he does look sturdy and rough so maybe. Time will only tell if he sounds like a brick shithouse.
No, she only has the power to kick the asses of asshole dads. Mind you it still applies here, but she is limited. If he’s coming to apologize and accept Becky, AG will be powerless against him.
She can kick him out, since he isn’t a student or the parent of one. Whether that can happen without Becky’s non-student status being revealed is another question.
Considering how old the original character is, he might actually predate the “Son I am disappoint” meme. So, it could be said that Disappoint Dad is supposed to look like this guy.
ahem Paleoecologists have observed the adult males of the Doasaurus lesbiensis. Often playfully referred to as Doasauross (for reasons unknown to science), the adult male members of this species are theorized to have driven away the juvenile females during a formative period f development. Whlst the reasons for this separation have been lost in time, it is known that the juvenile female individuals would travel a certain distance until finding the nests of Doasurus brunneis, with whom they would form long-lasting and meaningful relationships, the nature of which is still being debated by paleoecologists. It is not known whether the adult male members of the species had contact with their female offspring after the initial separation. However, paleoecologists predict that these interactions, were they to occur, would end disastrously. It is possible that other species, such as D. brunneis and D. saruyamensis would intervene with these interactions. Some paleoecologsists have predicted that larger, more dangerous species may also interfere with these reactions. These species would include the reclusive D. clintoni and the highly feared and frighteningly aggressive D. lessick. Time will tell what new discoveries will yield.
Excuse me, but I’ve not been aware of D. lessick. Is this a new species, or is this merely a renaming of a specimen that was previously known as Femorus rex?
D. lessick is a synonym for both F. rex and D. lesse. Officials are still debating on whether F. rex is valid, or whether the species is part of the genus Doasaurus. The names Doasaurus rex, D. femorus, and D. f. rex have also been suggested to describe the species.
Is the end of the story drunk-driving Blaine running him down, and the doctor that spends the entire day operating on him is the only one who could’ve saved Ryan from the face infection from the broken glass?
Willis has gone to the Bruce Timm school of male design for Ross, I see. Skinny legs, gradually lead to HUGE CHEST and arms leading up then normal head. Give him a shave and a cowl and you’d have a Batman
Dina, like most of the cast, is still under the impression that Becky is just Joyce’s visiting friend. Who is in no way living at the school and will therefore obviously be going home sometime soon.
Considering how badly Dina felt about trusting Blaine and letting him into hers and Amber’s room, I’m betting she’s not going to fall for whatever Wario tries to pull here
He’s not Blaine levels of shitty exactly, but he’s probably in second place for awful DOA parent. That’s… quite impressive, given how jerky some of them are.
There’s some sort of connection between being a DoA character and shitty parenting. The Keeners and the Snows are about the only decent ones we’ve seen. (The Warners produced Mike. ‘Nuff said.)
The Saruyamas aren’t shitty in the same way that Blaine or Ross are, in the sense of being horrible excuses for human beings, but being completely passive and unassertive isn’t good parenting, either.
The Wilcoxen’s constant subtle message that Danny is only as good as the woman who’s carrying him probably goes a long way towards explaining why Danny is so Danny.
You like the cute dinosaur girl’s inner dialogue and sweet little budding relationship, do you, then you will LOVE an abusing turd in the form of a toe.
Gotta disagree with you Mr. W.! Knowing what he looks like from the chest down is NO bright side. Good grief.
All is going more or less good,…..so enter Mr. Becky’s Dad.
Dina is so cute. Makes perfect sense she’s more interested in all she can learn, before wondering about personal involvement.
Damn, I’m glad she will not be too involved when the shit hits the fan.
Back years ago: First base: holding hands, maybe arm over the shoulder in the movie. Second base: Kiss. Third Base: a feel under the clothes, seeing under the clothes.
“Going all the way” just what it sounds like.
Of course everyone is assuming he’s actually the giant asshole Becky claims he is. It’s possible she overreacted, or that she’s out and out lying about what happened. On the other hand Joyce has said nothing that contradicts the idea of him being a nasty, and you’d think Joyce might have a bit of an idea when Becky has been lying.
yes! this is exactly what i was thinking! wouldn’t you know it, becky has overblown the rebellious thing while her dad was trying to be a nice, caring, understanding guy. he looks so ragged and pj’d cuz he’s been searching for his darling daughter without sleep for days. he turns up at this event to maybe find her, but also to understand her better. he just wants them to be a family again. becky hasn’t really loved him since her mother…
i’m sorry, but why can’t i believe my own heartfelt back story while looking at his face?
probably because Willis has said that these are the same characters, just in a different universe, and This (http://walkypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ross_MacIntyre) is her father from the first universe. He believed dancing was evil the first time around, so I just gotta imagine he’s gonna be just as tolerant this time around.
Groups that do not expose themselves to opposing view points (like many “Christian” Americans) tend to echo chamber themselves into more and more extreme “viewpoints” over time.
Joyce’s parents believed that Dorothy has not morals since she was an Aethiest* which is a common delusion among these religious groups.
Okay, I’m a bit baffled here. Are you doubting the part where A: he pulled her out of school because she was gay? Because I’m not seeing holes in that. Or, B: he wanted to put her in a ‘fix-the-gay’ camp? Because both of those are very believably especially when we consider what sort of world both Becky and Joyce were raised in. What exactly is prompting us to throw doubt on Becky in this circumstance?
I see nothing, except that she had to develop as a very good liar because she was homosexual in a household that had no tolerance for it, which actually adds to the credibility of her story.
So are we considering Becky’s father as a neutral figure until proven otherwise to give a ‘reasonable chance’ to a parent, who we consider to be the caretaker of the family? Why, when we hear from a child’s mouth credibly stories about how abusive their family is, is there then a compulsion to turn to the family, put a considerate hand on their shoulder and ask ‘is it true?’ over a friendly lunch?
It’s a common thing, especially when the one traumatized is non-normative in some way and the one doing the traumatizing is more normative. We want to believe that children are overblown and brown to overblowing everything and that the illusion of a home as a stable supportive suburban fantasy is what is going on and is more common than its alternatives.
Sadly, working with abused kids, often the reverse is true and the kids are much more likely to downplay the sheer level of shit they’ve been receiving and what they are suffering owing to a combination of their parents training a particular idea of a “normal” home environment, internalized shame from our tendency to blame victims, and the overall skepticism that is placed on youth who take an extraordinary risk in telling someone.
When telling an authority is likely to get you overly scrutinized and your parents told about the “accusations” to “see if they’re true”, that quickly becomes a dangerous thing to do. And that’s before all the training that telling others is “betraying the family” and being “bad” and therefore deserving of “punishment”.
When we’re not mired in it, I imagine it is comforting to want to drift to a world where we think the best of abusers until irrevocably shown otherwise… and even then.
The awesome thing about this comic is that it shows how abusers use that desire to see good and earnestness in them to get what they want. See Blaine exploiting the good host nature of Dina’s family or selling the concerned parent shtick to Danny.
It is possible that Becky, overwrought with everything (including her fantasies about her and Joyce exploding on the launch pad) may have exaggerated her father’s behaviour. However, I’m not expecting him to turn out 180-degrees from the way he’s been described so far.
It’s true, he could turn out to be a magical space unicorn and not a control freak who was shown in flashback panels to be literally physically dragging her out of the school and telling her she needed to be “fixed” for her own good.
It’s not likely, but technically, in an infinite universe it could be true.
Seriously though, there’s no “up” from trying to force someone into reparative “therapy” or imposing the level of control over a life that we’ve already seen him impose (let’s not forget that Frozen was on the banned list simply because it suggests parental authority can be wrong and questioned).
Seriously. Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Becky, she was not exaggerating Ross’ awfulness. The guy was seen physically grabbing her before she ran. He was talking about how Becky had to be disciplined and fixed – No points for guessing what that’s referring to! – so there is no frigging way Ross will turn out to be anything other than a walking, toe shaped pile of human shit.
So, in your desire to say Becky’s a liar, you’re also calling Willis a liar? Because his comments on tumblr, as well as flashbacks, have shown him to be a complete asshole, and he was a complete asshole in the prior verse. This, because it’s so unbelievable there was a control freak reparation-therapy-pushing asshole among the parents in a comic set in Indiana? Yeah… no. This guy is almost definitely an asshole who aspires to be an asshole of Blaine’s caliber.
I’m not sure how Becky overreacted to something along the lines of “I’m sending you to therapy, get in the car now.” I mean we didn’t see his dialogue, but it really seemed like Becky only had two choices here, and Ross doesn’t recognize the choice she made (running away) as legitimate because he’s here now.
As for whether she’s lying, we can be pretty sure that she’s telling the truth. Remember that Joyce knows Becky’s dad. She knows his religious views are very similar to everyone else in her pre-college social circles. (And thus, she would expect him to react to Becky being a lesbian in such a manner). And she knows that he’s pretty controlling, even compared to her parents. (Becky wasn’t even allowed a cell phone). It’s pretty safe to say that Ross is a control freak homophobe.
But yeah, it’s mostly because we focus on the most dramatic ones in a story. Who are inevitably the evil ones. On the plus side, we get really convenient hate-targets.
I was mostly joking. There’s very rarely a good parent / bad parent dynamic in DoA, other than Amber’s parents, so you have the good parents (the Keeners, the Snows, the Warners and presumably the Saruyamas) and all the others, who exist to explain why some of the characters are the way they are.
Sierra’s dad and Dotty’s dad are great. Sal n’ Walky’s dad doesn’t have enough of a backbone to stop his wife from being a jackass to their kids, but he seems perfectly decent on his own merits.
It’s more that parents, in general, are bad in this comic, and to varying degrees (I feel 90% positive that Billie’s dad would legit like to spend more time with Billie, mostly because I don’t think Willis wants to make all the parents unrepentant bastards when he’s about to become a dad, and he hasn’t defined Billie’s dad), than that fathers are terrible.
Bryan gets a tag on this strip? I guess we see part of his arm on the edge of a frame… I assume that’s whose arm it is, just based on yesterday’s strip…
Damn you Willis! Joyce JUST HAD one breakthrough on the “gays are people too” front! It’s too early to set her up for another mindscrew “wait evolution isn’t a ploy of the devil?” epiphany!
…. oh, and fams drams is happening too, I guess? Probably not, though. I’m sure that Dina will make a good first impression on her future father-in-law by helpfully providing him with directions. What’s the worst that could happen?
Lookee there. someone done shaved Harry the Hairy Ape and left his ‘stash. Where’s that dude shop? The Skid Row Mission Thrift Store? I threw out a pair of pants like that in 1973. It was the style then, okay?
We’re going to see how people other than Amber deal with shitty dads! There will be more ways to contrast the ways different characters deal with shitty situations. Oh my!
We’ve actually been seeing how Becky deals with the PTSD of a terrible raising environment compared to Amber for awhile now. The way she’s creepily good at putting on a face of everything’s okay and normal while everything is brewing and boiling over inside in terms of anger and sadness. The way she only lets herself break down when she’s alone or in a safe removed place and even then how she tries to push through it if the place she’s in feels public in any way or under scrutiny by others.
And she likes to use silliness as a deflection.
But I have a feeling it will all come tumbling down and we’ll see the raw rage at the injustice of it all we saw hinted in the flashback panel where she references his desire to “fix” her if they should encounter again.
Yup. We have seen a LOT of Becky’s cooping mechanisms… and the fact that she is so good at them, and that her best friend since forever didn’t peg on the fact that something was wrong, says something very ugly about life in the Mcintyre household right there.
Having to hide that much and having to get that good at hiding things says at the very least that the home environment was controlling as fuck.
And hints at the potential of a lot worse than that. After all, when it’s literal life and death to be able to pretend that everything is all right, wouldn’t you get a LOT of practice?
I started this strip looking forward to more Dina smiles. Thanks, Toe Dad. Hopefully, Becky won’t be around when he finds Joyce and she’ll be able to get rid of him somehow. On the other hand, it is this comic, so I’m not optimistic.
“Hello mam, have you seen my daughter? She is missing.”
*hands Dina photo of Becky.*
“Also, have you see. My neck? It is missing as well.” *Hands Dina photo of neck.*
“The idea of Becky and I kissing” is actually the correct phrase, “The idea of Becky and me kissing” wouldn’t be ‘proper’ English. Though it would still be reasonable enough to hear teenagers say, because lol teenagers and proper english.
(Though this is irrelevant as Dina always uses correct English anyway~)
Don’t think it should be “I” there. If you make it “eating” and remove Becky, would it be “The idea of I eating” or “The idea of me eating”? I think it’d be “me”, so it’s still “me” if it’s kissing instead of eating, and it’s still “me” if Becky’s there, too.
Of course, most technically, “kissing” may actually be a gerund, thus formally necessitating the possessive forms – “The idea of Becky’s and my kissing”. I think it’s right (it’s definitely “my” if it’s a single person and “eating”), but someone might confirm that!
I think you could take ‘kissing’ as either a gerund (would you be upset by Becky’s and my kissing) or a present participle (would you be upset by Becky and me kissing). In practice it’s mostly treated as a participle in spoken English, though some texts are sticklers for gerunds.
Even if she intended it as a gerund, it’s generally accepted that skipping the possessive nouns is permissible for complex constructions once it starts getting awkward enough.
I’m a little stumped on how that substitution works when one of the owners of the gerund is yourself though. “Joyce objects to our kissing” is fine, but if you want to enumerate the owners do you go from “Becky’s and my kissing” to “Becky and I kissing” or “Becky and me kissing”?
I honestly don’t know… the second one *seems* a little more right, but I think that’s just because it looks like kissing is a participle modifying “Becky and me”. If Dina got there via the gerund exception, I’m stumped. I think all the the staunchest prescriptivist would just tell you to do what “sounds right” at that point.
Nope. The pronoun depends on what function it’s performing in the sentence, so in this case it’s ‘me’. It’d be ‘the idea of Becky kissing’ and ‘the idea of me kissing’, not ‘the idea of I kissing’. The presence of ‘and’ doesn’t change that.
OTOH, if you make Becky and Dina the subjects of the verb, not the objects of a preposition, then you’d go for ‘I’. ‘Would you be upset if Becky and I kissed’ is totally cromulent. It’s the difference between ‘Becky and I went to lunch’ and ‘Joyce took Becky and me to lunch’ or ‘Joyce went to lunch with Becky and me’.
I could also see Dina overcorrecting, especially after her speech patterns were poked at by Sarah, but webcomic writers are also human, and a lot of people get this one wrong. Even or perhaps especially people who think they use only the most proper English, like our friend a few comments up.
On TV and in movies, you frequently hear characters who are grammar pendants, written by people who are not, overcorrect for “I/me” and who/whom. Part of it is simply the writer trying to take every opportunity presented to remind the viewers/readers that this character is a stickler for grammar. Like… they’re overcorrecting as characterization.
I’m guessing that the guy built like a bull is Becky’s dad. He is exactly as I had imagined him! I suppose this is both a good thing and a bad thing because little will be achieved if Becky remains in limbo.
That doesn’t mean that there won’t be trouble. I’m pretty sure that Joyce is going to end up in trouble with her family and Becky’s dad may end up tangling with the local night-life like Amazi-Girl and Sal.
I’m sure lots of people will be angry with Joyce today but you have to remember that, in the end, no matter how misguided, her reaction is purely motivated by concern for Becky. It’s interesting that, on a subconscious level, there is a part of Joyce that sees little inoffensive Dina as really, really threatening.
We did see him once in a prior comic, during the series were we get the story of Becky leaving Anderson. He does do the stereotypical look thing very well! Extra scary!
Noooooo !
The last comics were so cute. Why did we have to even things up with this incoming shitstorm ?
Oh God, Oh God, no. I just want Dina cuteness, not horrible horrible familly members and feels.
Let’s take a moment to consider
That Becky doesn’t have a home
That Becky doesn’t have a school or a job
That Becky’s sole belonging is her Anderson’s hoodie
That Becky’s first kiss ended in her fleeing into the night
That Becky’s only support right now comes from having to ask her best friend to lie to her parent
That Becky has almost nothing but runs every risk of loosing even that.
Because of this butt-hole.
Well, what kind of asshole homophobic abuser would he be if he simply let Becky live her life after taking every form of support and possession from her? I mean, that could open the possibility of her actually thriving in her new state without him thus making him feel small and no one makes him or his torso feel small.
We simply can’t have that.
racksafrasin Frozen teaching my property she can run away (bitter Rossian mumbling)
Clearly the best solution is if he is in full control of Becky’s every life choice no matter how small because clearly he has such a swimming track record.
Dear commenters, as we’re ending the Sexuality Questioning sessions, I have one 🙂
Based on the fact that, in the modern society, we agreed that gender roles were basically meaningless ( as you can like knitting and wear skirts and still be a man and play football and like computers and be a woman), what do being “intersex” could possibly mean?
I don’t get it.
I mean, transsexuals I get it. You’re born with a set of genitals that does not correspond to the set of genitals your brain prefer.
But intersex, or gender fluid? Like, what does feeling 30% male and 70% female MEANS? (If we of course set apart the case of hermaphrodites).
There are societies with traditionaly separated gender roles that do have additional genders, that’s OK. But that’s because they have separated gender roles. It’s not the case in modern society.
So first off, not transsexuals – that’s not a good word, by and large. Transgender is preferred.
Genderfluid folks come in many shapes. One of my friends has female-feeling days and male-feeling days, and prefers a pronoun be used for them that doesn’t imply a gender in case it’s uncomfortable.
And some folks simply don’t feel much connection with gender.
Plus, the biology isn’t always black-and-white either. Not everyone has either XX or XY chromosomes, and (while there’s a lot more to it than ‘which set of genitals you have’) what’s on the outside of your body can be ambiguous or at odds with what’s on the inside.
I’m not sure where the science currently stands on being ‘neurotypically fe/male’ – I’ve heard it both ways recently – but it’s probably best to think of both sex and gender as being a spectrum with weighting towards the ends but encompassing a full range of natural variation. And that’s without getting into the purely sociological aspects of our various cultural norms for how men / women are expected to behave.
So, your friend, does s/he behaves differently on male days than on female days? Does her brain scans show different particularities even (I don’t know if differences btw both brains exist, though)? What does it mean is my question 🙂 What does “feeling male” entail when you’re fine with the genitals you have anyway?
And why would s/he be uncomfortable with a particular pronoun? In english there’s she or he or it, but some languages have no gender marks on pronouns, and some (like mine native, french), have gendered everything . Why not just pick one and feel how you want to feel anyway?
I mean, isn’t the endpoint of Queer revendications not the right to difference, but the right to indifference?
@SDGlyph.
That’s why I’m not talking about the special biological cases 🙂 My question is very specifically, in a society with no defined gender roles, what does “feeling male/female” means for those who are perfectly fine with the set of genitals they have?
For example, my friend has a vagina, is straight, likes hiking, pants, and martials arts. She identify herself as “female”. Now, if she identified herself as “male”, but kept the rest intact, what does it mean? What has changed?
//
Maybe so you can better understand my question, I’ve recently come across a fun internet group called the “otherkins”. It’s people who feel they’re born the wrong specie . Some of them feel they’re in fact cats, or panthers, or dragons. In a human body.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m quite sure that there’s a difference with gender fluid individuals. I just can’t put my finger on it at the moment. Therefore, I’m looking for answers 🙂
(PS: As a note so people don’t get the wrong idea, I have no trouble with any oddity that humans can come up with, as long as they’re not destructive. We all have weird aspects. I just want to understand:)
I think it’s just a feeling that can’t really be explained. As far as I can tell, there are a lot of concepts like that, which quite possibly can’t be explained, as the relevant mental concepts just don’t exist the same way in everyone. From the sound of it, your mental gender is quite possibly neutral/whatever you want to call it, although I may be projecting. Kind of like asexuality, but relating to gender rather than sexual preference.
Sometimes people are born with physical characteristics that are not clearly those of either stereotypical sex, having for example ambiguous genitalia. Or they are born appearing to be one sex and develop an intersexed condition later (e.g. starting at puberty).
It refers to having physical characteristics that are not unambiguously those of either sex, such as ambiguous genitalia. There’s a reasonably informative article about it in Wikipedia.
Also, as a straight up FYI Intersex generally is the preferred word for those you are currently referring to as hermaphrodites.
I wish I kinda had a handy “gender 101” *literally* link around, but I don’t. And I don’t know *how* good wikipedia is, so I’m cautious to recommend it. Others have all made good comments so far though.
There are quite a few things that often get inflated together when the general public is discussing “gender”. In reality, this general category refers to a list of various categories that are formed out of different systems.
Sex assigned at birth: Is what the doctor slaps on your birth certificate at birth based on a cursory glance at the genitals. It may or may not conform to actual gender identity and may or may not match chromosomal makeup (XX males and XY females are a thing) and may or may not match hormonal palate during pubescence.
*Okay, the big glowing ball in the room for all this is that biology likes spectrums, because biodiversity in Biological terms equals safety for a sexually reproducing species. So the more “atypical” the species has, the more range of experiences it can develop, the healthier the species is. However, Western, especially American societies love binary systems (you’re a liberal or a conservative, you’re black or you’re white, you’re straight or you’re gay, and so on and so forth). As such, we tend to flatten everything into that pattern whether it naturally fits or not. So, we socially created a concept of biological sex, where the genitals match the chromosomes match the hormones match the gender identity and often times can’t handle where a) that’s proven wrong, and worse b) where that’s proven wrong because there isn’t even a binary.
So our first stop is intersex: Intersex individuals are those who have an ambiguous genitalia configuration at birth (and honestly, should also apply to individuals with atypical hormonal patterns at puberty and conditions like Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and PCOS). Current medical practice to enforce the illusion of a binary is to perform surgery on these babies when born to “make their genitalia fit one state or the other” to prevent “bullying”. Sometimes this is done without even informing the parent. Intersex children are often likely to have atypical hormonal patterns growing up and can often develop during first puberty secondary sex characteristics associated with both men and women (thick body hair and breast growth for instance). Additionally, said individuals may or may not have both testes and ovaries within their system.
Being intersex however says nothing about an individual’s gender.
Which leads us to Gender Identity: Gender identity is what gender we more or less are. It’s the feeling of comfort or discomfort in being regarded as one gender or other genders. This is where a large part of cisgender versus transgender issues come into play.
Cisgender: Means that your gender identity, what gender you are, matches what was assigned at birth. It doesn’t really have anything to do with gender roles or gender performance outside of the necessity of operating with those in order to avoid discrimination. So, someone labeled female at birth who identifies as a woman would be a cis woman even if they had short crew cut, only wore ultra-masculine clothes and worked in a steel mill.
Transgender: A blanket of identities where one doesn’t identify, where one’s gender doesn’t match what was assigned. This can include the most prominent examples. Trans men and trans women who identify with a binary identity (man or woman) that differers from what they were assigned at birth. This can also include non-binary individuals.
Non-binary: This is back to that whole spectrum thing from before. While most individuals have a gender identity that matches the man-woman binary we like to impose, that is not universally reflected in gender identities. Some individuals feel they actually identify somewhere in between those two states (genderqueer) and will often choose gender-neutral pronouns to match (singular they, ze, zie, xe, ey, etc…). Some individuals feel they are completely absent from the binary and identify as neither and feel very uncomfortable and dysphoric** when assumed to be of a binary gender (this describes agender individuals the most frequently). Some individuals view themselves as exploding the whole binary entirely (genderfuck), while others have their gender identity in flux where somedays they feel like one gender and somedays like another and what feels dysphoric** often matches to that (this is what genderfluid means). Still others may identify as men and women simultaneously or in two different circumstances during their day to day life (this is bigender). This is all due to gender being as much a spectrum as sexuality (because you have people who are gay or straight or bi or ace or whose sexuality fluctuates throughout life or is in a grey-area between ace and one of the others).
**Dysphoria: An intense negative feeling associated with being constantly treated and reminded of the lack of congruity between gender identity and what society treats you as or what certain modes of dress/body shape feels to you. It’s a crippling experience that can cause massive depression, suicidal ideation, and so on if not treated by finding means of internally and externally aligning one’s gender performance, body shape, and treatment by others.
Which leads us to the way that society likes to conflate genitals and gender identity to the mass of cultural performances we present to the world. This is also where a lot of people get confused because transgender individuals are often forced into situations where they have to exaggerate what they present to the world in order to be taken seriously by society, which is all a long intro to…
Gender performance: What we present to the world in terms of social and aesthetic behaviors we associate with one gender or another. A suit and a tie aren’t inherently male or even inherently masculine, but we associate that culturally so an individual in a suit and a tie will be assumed to be dressing masculinely and that trait will often be used as a short-hand by others in guessing their gender identity.
This is where the terms masculine and feminine come from and where gender roles and norms have the most sway. Makeup isn’t inherently feminine, but we deem it so, so an individual wearing it will be seen as feminine. And sadly, culturally, we also deem feminine things as inherently worse than masculine things and see it as a means to treat those who adopt them as less.
This often leads to feminist discussion surrounding how we perform these particular roles and adopt these gender performances regardless of personal preference out of fear of ostracization or worse. This is what breeds toxic masculinity as defined by often men adopting exaggerated sometimes violent ideas of masculinity that are internally and externally harmful out of fear of being deemed feminine and a “woman” by refusing. This is also what often leads trans individuals to adopt stereotypically masculine or feminine attire to be taken more seriously as their gender during transition.
However it is also the case that despite the pressure, there are performances that feel most right to us as human beings. A butch lesbian for instance isn’t just performing that role because they were told they should fit the guy role more, but because those things we’ve deemed masculine clothing styles and haircuts feel more right and more authentic.
This leads to one of our final categories.
Ideal Gender Performance: What roles we would naturally like to follow regarding what we’ve deemed masculine and feminine if we were absent considerable pressure to conform one way or another. A dude who dresses conservatively masculine may actually really like to wear makeup and a dress if it wasn’t associated with a particular gender identity or sexual orientation.
This is the garb that feels most right and it is gendered by society based on the connotations of masculinity and femininity we associate with various objects. And this is where you get that kind of breaking of norms these days as enforcement of gender performance relaxes where putting on a dress doesn’t make Eddy Izzard a woman or where Abby Wambach isn’t called a dude because she likes sports.
Ideal gender performance and gender identity will still be with us even in an imagined feminist utopia where there were no gender pressures to be one way versus another and where objects weren’t gendered. Because these are a lot more fixed and innate like sexuality. So you’ll still have individuals who identify as a gender and are most comfortable with that identity and who will have sexual orientations that fit in with that identity and they’ll still have modes of dress and hobbies that fit best for them even if those modes of dress are no longer gendered.
Where society gets confusing is that we conflate all of these and the prescribed roles and social pressure all as gender in a lot of discourse and conversation. And that gets into conflict with individuals with marginalized identities that don’t neatly fit the narrative (masculine trans women, non-binary individuals, androgynous individuals of all identities, and so on).
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks for the answers! It was quite an interesting read. And thanks for the explanation about Intersex, I didn’t know these details.
But I’m very sorry, to me this misses my question:)
My question, I guess, is more on what defines male/female-ness when gender roles or genitalia or genetic make up does not come into play? As I’ve answered higher up, for example, my friend has a vagina, is straight, likes hiking, pants, and martials arts. She identify herself as “female”. Now, if she identified herself as “male”, but kept the rest intact, what does it mean? What has changed?
I mean, in some societies they have additional genders that correspond to gender roles assumed by people with not the right set of genitalia for this society and this role. I get it. In the modern, developped world, ideally today any role can be assumed by a person with any genitalia (let’s be ideal^^)
People are sexually attracted to other people, and have preferences regarding the genitalia of said people. I get it.
Transgenders possess a set of genitals that does not correspond to the set of genitals their brain thinks it should have. I get it.
Intersex possess a set of genitals that do not correspond to any of the standard of the specie, or a set of genitals that do not correspond to their genetic makeup. I get it.
Now, gender fluid people have no specifics about their gender role, their genitalia, their sexual attraction, or their genetic makeup. But they still feel like a combination of male and female not corresponding to what could be expected at first glance. I don’t get it. What does it mean?
Maybe it’s a problem of definition.
For me, male = one present the whole genetic/hormonal profile to have a penis + penis, female = one present the whole genetic/hormonal profile to have a vagina + vagina, intersex = one present a combination of both profiles either internally or externally.
Now, with those definitions what does “feeling” male when you’re female and do not want to change your genitalia would entail? Should I change definitions? But they’re descriptive! Replacing them with “feels male/female/a mix” would make them circular and meaningless!
At the moment, for me, it’s a bit like someone telling me he “feels to be a duck”. I ask if he has a beak, feathers, or palms: no. I ask if he’s planning to get them, to fit his inside feelings: no. I ask if he eats bread and eye lustingly other ducks: it’s of no relevance (and I agree!). So on what should I base the appreciation that he’s a duck? Should I redefine duck-ness to add “feeling to be a duck”?
To mention, I really think that being gender-fluid is widely different from thinking oneself a duck. I just want to understand what is the difference exactly. Because I don’t get it.
To finish, I’m not the type to go and impose my judgment on others when they’re not bothering me. The happiness of others regards others, as long as they find happiness I’m happy. I just want to understand.
I’m not sure “the definition becomes circular” is a valid argument when dealing with something like the human brain. Even if it is kind of circular, the concept of gender seems like it’s halfway between being simply a state of mind associated with particular physical characteristics and something completely separate. I’m pretty sure that, even if it does seem circular to you, it’s probably best if you change your definition.
My question, I guess, is more on what defines male/female-ness when gender roles or genitalia or genetic make up does not come into play?
Gender Identity.
Which is a real thing that is innate and unchangeable. Just because it is in the brain doesn’t make it less “real” or less “biological” just as one can’t just change their sexual orientation or stop having a mental condition such as depression.
Going, gosh wouldn’t it be fun to be a duck or a delusion that can be shaken with intense therapy like say body dysmorphia don’t really rise to the level of what we’ve seen things like gender and sexual orientation occupy in the brain.
Nor the sheer level of torment that dysphoria can represent in lived experience (I couldn’t actually look in the mirror or look at myself bathing until I started actively finding a model of transition that worked for me).
Transgenders possess a set of genitals that does not correspond to the set of genitals their brain thinks it should have. I get it.
Well, that’s not it at all. It’s about what gender the brain is.
The importance and critical nature of genitals are a quaint social idea that we see any time a cis individual has a traumatic injury to their overall hip area. If a cis dude had a traumatic injury resulting in the loss of his penis and balls, would he cease being a dude? Would he suddenly become agender and adopt an agender gender identity?
No. Of course not. We can see this argument as being specious.
And that’s because we realize that there is another component to our gender that overrides that. This is why a transgender person doesn’t need surgery to be the gender that they are. A trans woman does not forego being a woman nor a trans man forego being a man because they haven’t had a particular flavor of surgery (of which there are many that can be seen as Sex Realignment Surgeries).
That component is that clump that sits in your brain and based on a lot of people’s life experiences settles into its default operating mode whether that is cis or trans very very early in life close to the exact moment where we are mentally capable of processing the concept of gender.
And I think that is the piece you are missing. A trans person isn’t going, oh me my, surgery is the only thing that will make me complete. A trans person has that innate part of their brain that in a cis person may match what the driver’s license or genitalia configuration say not matching with what everyone is displacing on them.
And that’s what often precedes transition efforts, because other people are terrible at going, yup, you know what is going on in your head best unless they can see “proof”. So a trans person is rarely taken seriously unless they make a dramatic change to their aesthetics matching gender stereotypes in the same way as someone’s sexuality is treated as a joke unless they conform to what people imagine that means (I’ve encountered a fuck ton of gay guys and lesbians who were dismissed even if they were dating people of the same gender simply because they didn’t “look” like stereotypical ideas of gay men and lesbians).
And this is an important basis to re-evaluate and get right, because it’s the source of a lot of your confusion.
Now, gender fluid people have no specifics about their gender role, their genitalia, their sexual attraction, or their genetic makeup.
But they do. It just shifts, sometimes dramatically, sometimes quickly. Some days they may feel really really male and it’s important to their mental health, well-being, and self-esteem to be treated as such. Others they may feel really, really female and so recognizing and respecting that becomes important.
This has fuck all to do with their genital state (individuals of all potential genitalia configurations can be genderfluid), ideal gender performance (whether they are feeling feminine or masculine (it’s totally a thing to feel like a feminine dude or a masculine woman, even when you are trans)), or sexuality (some genderfluid people have a consistent category of person they are attracted to though what that means can shift day to day or moment to moment*, others don’t or find they feel like gay men one day but lesbian women another).
*It’s worth noting here a story about a date an ex of mine went on with a genderfluid individual and how there was a bit of fooling around where the genderfluid person had a switch in the middle of the fooling around and how dramatically different their whole everything shifted with that to go from what was initially a very straight style affair into a deeply lesbian experience.
It does sometimes have things to do with gender performance because again, society doesn’t take people seriously on their experiences unless they can see them, so if a genderfluid individual wants to be taken seriously, they sometimes have to follow it up with dramatic visual cues, which is shitty, but there we go on how gender roles fuck us all, both cis and trans both.
And it does have something to do with genetic makeup, because the brain is not a mass of pure energy wholly disconnected from our genes. Our brain is instead built from our genes and defined by our gene expressions with influence from environmental and social factors affecting said gene expression along the way.
That’s another important thing to note. That our brain is just as biological as our genitals and that neither necessarily have anything to do with the sex chromosomes.
Now, with those definitions what does “feeling” male when you’re female and do not want to change your genitalia would entail?
Your gender identity would be that of a guy.
Surgery does not make one a guy, that is why men do not lose their maleness if they need to remove cancer in their testicles or penis. Gender performance does not make you a guy. We don’t assume that Twisted Sister was actually an all-girl band while on stage simply because they are wearing bright colors and stockings.
Instead we implicitly understand that there is another more inherent thing that makes one a dude.
So why should the rules be different if one is trans.
And more importantly, please allow me to turn the question back to you. Why does it matter to your ability to treat a man who says they are a man like a man what their genitals look like? What their gender performance looks like? Why should a person who is relating who they are and asking to be afforded the treatment commiserate with have to “prove” their gender to you with dramatic action? Why does the answer to this change when the individual is trans versus when they are cis?
Cause that’s the stumbling block I feel you are running into and its an easy stumbling block to hit because transgender issues are often erased in society and a lot of transphobic myths proliferate.
Surgery does not define us. Surgery is not a universal experience any more than hormones or adoptive dress. Actually, rather less. And our genitalia state can resolve into something rather less important so long as we are being treated in conjunction with our gender. I know plenty of trans individuals that just say fuck it and go without because being treated with the right pronouns and having people accept them for how they are is all they really needed to shut up the painful hum of dysphoria.
Should I change definitions? But they’re descriptive!
You associate an experience that has very little to do with genitalia to being all about genitalia. Because it’s “descriptive”. This was enough for you to discount the hypothetical man in your previous example.
If I was you, I would examine this moment that had you write this, because I think it is central to what is getting in your way of understanding.
It’s clearly the internal thing that is most compelling to you, far beyond the gender identity of an individual and what they are telling you they’re experiencing.
Whatever is making you override that because genitals feel important to you is critical to growing to understand this. And I believe you can because you are taking the important first step of asking questions in the first place.
Replacing them with “feels male/female/a mix” would make them circular and meaningless!
How so?
Like, let’s take it away from gender identity and keep it really simple. If an individual said “I feel sad”, would you feel compelled to grill them? Would you go, no, you are in a party, people in parties don’t feel sad or “I don’t know, you look happy, you must be lying about your experience” or “if I take you at your word, then the only useful definition of sad I have is that you feel sad and that’s circular”.
Probably not and that’s because that feels ridiculous. An individual who feels sad is the best judge of what is going on in their brain and their emotional state.
And that’s just for an emotion. If we took something far more critical to one’s self like sexual orientation, this would be even more insensitive? “Wait, we should just follow whether or not someone “feels” gay to believe they are gay, wouldn’t that be circular, I’m going to continue assuming you are straight.” That would be really douchey and it is no less so with gender.
How you define gender is by how they define it because anyone actually taking about their own gender out loud given the level of shit that trans people get has definitely thought a fuck ton more about it than you.
So, if you want to know what that means and how you should interact regardless of other clues, you should just…
Ask.
Just ask them. Ask them what their preferred pronouns are and then practice them and if that shifts in the future, you follow what they say then. If they say that being genderfluid or genderqueer or trans means X to them, you should believe them and go, fair enough. We do it all the time every time an individual asks to go by their middle name or prefers a nickname or wants you to still view them as one of the guys even though they recently came out.
o mention, I really think that being gender-fluid is widely different from thinking oneself a duck.
Indeed, which is why I’m not going to tackle that question under its own terms. Because yes, as you surmise, it is offensive in the same way as if you went “oh, someone said they were depressed, isn’t that the same as being sad or someone saying they’re a donkey, how do I believe them on this unless they show me their work”.
Gender identity is not a “feeling”. Is not some fleeting spot of fancy. It is who we are.
To be at all applicable to your situations, the duckman would have to feel physical and emotional pain being treated as a human, would be suffering to be considered a human and would be massively triggered dysphoric and suicidal to have everyone dismiss their duckness asking for fucking bread pics and whether their new wings have grown in yet.
And that situation doesn’t exist, because it’s a bad analogy. Gender is not a fluke. It is what we are. And what we are is not our genitals.
And I’m not saying that because I’m trans and trying to deflect. I’m saying that because I’m trans and spent way too long of my life trying to be cis. Trying to fit in and be what everyone expected me to be. To lean on my masculinity to try and force myself to better fit this mold that literally everyone I had encountered up to that point was what was supposed to fit for me.
If gender was mutable. If gender was an idea or a delusion, it wouldn’t be able to survive that. But it isn’t. And try as I may have, I wasn’t a guy, even though others could point to my genital configuration or my driver’s license to argue as such.
There is no duckman analogy that can capture and encapsulate that experience.
Hopefully all this helps and answers your questions and I strongly encourage you to take a second pass through my first pass again after genuinely examining what it is to you that makes you want to assume that genitalia equals gender.
Because that seems to be where you are getting stuck and there’s no shame in that. It’s a place a lot of cis people get stuck, because society is very good at telling us that our genitals are the only thing that define our gender and it is very easy to believe that when you don’t have an innate, inherent part of your brain saying no.**
**Which isn’t to say that cis people don’t have that part of their brain. It’s just that it’s easier to not pay attention. The genital shortcut still works and society still aligns itself naturally with their gender identity. It’s like how it’s easy for a white man to ignore the impact of racism or a man to ignore the impact of sexism. Because you don’t have to see it to get along with your day.
Even later to the game here, but is there a place I could link to your explanations, Cerebus? Or could I republish them elsewhere and credit you both (asker and answerer) in the manner of your choosing?
These explanations are exceedingly well-put, and in my family, I have many babyboomers who are supportive and curious about my genderqueer cousin. Said babyboomers are right about where the questioner is in every way. They are not assholes and they know how to behave properly externally, and also they’d like to understand better internally. I think they’d get a lot out of this conversation!
Well, I would argue that, as a girl, Becky is less likely to inherit obvious physical features from her father. Red hair is ultra-recessive too, so it is quite possible that Becky inherited that from her grandparents on both sides.
You know it is possible (if unlikely) that we’re all doing Becky’s dad a serious disservice. What if losing track of his daughter for days has made him rethink his feelings a bit? It isn’t impossible that his first reaction upon seeing Becky will be to burst into tears, hug her and thank God that she’s safe.
However, I think it’s more likely that he’s either going to disown her or tell her that the college fund is hers to do with as she wishes but not to ever expect a single extra cent or acknowledgement from him ever again.
I think the argument was more “what if he steps back from that level” but I have to agree I don’t find it at all likely 🙁
Gahhh last panel makes me glad I read comics out of order today. This one has been last (of dailies) for awhile, its getting bumped somewhere in the middle to cushion futures traumas!
Oh god…Dina is going to accidentally out Beckys whereabouts to her dad, right?
I mean, she doesn’t know Becky ran from him, and she’s even very open about telling people she kissed her yesterday. I predict the remainder of Dinas day will be Dina doing her best to fix the situation she accidentally caused…
This whole thing could very easily get hugely complicated. If Becky refuses to go with her father and claims that she is in peril from him, then, irrespective of her status vis the college, the Administrators would be obliged to hand the matter over to the police (possibly even the Feds if state borders have been crossed).
My guess is that he’ll decide that he’d prefer Becky with someone he knows and trusts (Joyce) than her missing and on the run whilst doing who knows what to support herself. He’ll transfer her to Indiana State but will sternly instruct Joyce that she must have intensive moral sermonising sessions with her at least daily to ‘cure’ her of her ‘deviancy’ and that he’ll hold her personally responsible for the outcome.
This means that we will get occasional calls to Joyce from Ross asking for status reports, the practical upshot of which will be that Joyce will become a skilled and plausible liar. When graduation comes, it is possible that Joyce may never be able to go back to her home church because Ross will have her cast out for being party to his daughter’s behaviour.
Becky is 18. If she refuses to go with her father and claims that she is in peril from him, then the only involvement the authorities have would be something like a restraining order.
He can legally cut off any funding and choose not to support her any further, but he can’t legally take her away. That’s kidnapping.
The consequences of that involvement might also get Becky kicked out of the dorm, but that’s not a police matter.
However personal experiences suggest that what will happen is that he will try to force her to heel to his expectations and follow through with getting fixed and will use every tool in an arsenal of emotional abuse, potential physical abuse (albeit maybe only limited to physically dragging her away), and so on.
With individuals like this, being “right” matters a hell of a lot more than the happiness of the child (if the happiness of the child was something you cared more about than your own fantasies of happy families, then you wouldn’t try to “fix” them in the first place).
And there’s the added baggage that as his particular strain of Christian he literally sees it as the only way to save her soul from literal demonic infection. And what possible action no matter how monstrous, abusive, and demonstrably bad for the short-term mental and physical health of the child could be too much to save one from literal eternity of suffering and misery?
So yeah, I’m seeing warrior from God to “save” his daughter as being the WAY more likely scenario here.
Becky’s Dad: “Something-something corruption of the mind. Something-something mother loves you. Something-something I’ll take you home.”
Becky: “I’m not coming with you.”
Becky’s Dad: “Something-something corruption of the soul. Something-something sodomite.”
Dina: “The universe is billions of years old.”
Becky’s Dad: *head explodes*
Becky: “Well. This is suddenly more of a mess…”
If he does ask Dina, we can only hope she remembers what happened when she let Amber’s dad into their room, and think twice about it. Dina may have huge problems picking up on social clues, but she does learn from past experience.
(But if the dramatic needs of plot override that… Noooooooooo!)
I’m sure that he’s been trying other places where he thought that she would be hiding. I suspect that it has taken him this long to try Joyce because he doesn’t know Joyce (or at least Joyce as she is now) well enough. He was expecting her to have called him or her parents if Becky had turned up more-or-less immediately; he isn’t expecting that Joyce might be on Becky’s side and that could lead to fireworks when he realises it.
There could be hope. “Aggressive homophobe walks into an LGBT college support meeting?” Could end up surrounded by a bunch of fit kids who aren’t particularly afraid of him / have some righteous anger issues of their own?
I am imagining ToeDad in the Chris Pratt Raptor Pose.
At the very least, a few wrong words from toedad would immediately alert the very people who are most likely to be willing and able to help Becky because they know more than anyone on the campus what kind of peril she is in.
Ross: mumble-mumble-correction camp-muble.
Bryan: Um… Do anyone here know a “Becky”, she might need our help… um, Jim? Joyce is kinda crying here, like, a lot, and it’s getting awkward… Jim? Jiiiiiiim? This Becky definitely needs our help. Distract toe-man out there.
Dina: I’m aware of her present location and will take you there. I will then depart to change to my raptor costume because of reasons.
Danny: *Activates DS chat function* OK, I’m definitely Jimmy Olsen at this point…
Madly ‘Out There’ Possibility
Different universe but Joyce is still an Abductee. She has a nervous breakdown-level panic attack and the stress triggers her alien DNA-created powers, causing her to telekinetically nail Ross into a wall. Sunnydale Syndrome follows with everyone making elaborate excuses for it being some kind of weird coincidence.
I was thinking for a moment that he was there just to ask Joyce, who’d try her very best to simply lie. But then I noticed that he has a photograph (or something very much like it) in his hands, so he’s probably going to go around and ask everyone if they’ve seen the girl in the photo over the last few days.
Y’know, it is my opinion that panel 4 is another tick in the ‘asexual’ box. She literally has no idea that a romantic entanglement could lead to anything except cuddling and doing similar friendly-loving things.
Yup, definitely one for the ol’ ace-canon box, at least in my head. Mainly because I remember that stage of “hmm, I’m not opposed to sex and could be interested in it, ooh a relationship, this is where I… uh… hmm… I’m going to need some guidance from them because my natural inclinations is kisses and cuddles.”
I love this comic – not just “Evilution” but the entire run! And I really like Dina but she seems to drop out of character too often. Like Peggy Hill, Dina does not use contractions – her grammar is always perfect. So why did she drop out in the 1st panel by saying “Becky and I kissing”? The Dina we’ve come to know and love would never make such a mistake.
I understand the difficulty of writing dialog with such a specific style and I luvs ya for it!
JS…
I’m thinking that this preview picture is something coming in this current sub-arc. Maybe Becky’s dad tells Joyce that he’s very disappointed in her hiding Becky (“Conniving in her sin” is probably how he’ll put it), that he’ll be informing her parents of what she’s done and insisting that they discipline her.
I’m not so sure. the Joyce freak-out usually happens when she’s faced with a completely commonplace reality that she can’t accept (ie: Dorothy is an atheist, girls can be attracted to girls).
I’m guessing Becky tells her she doesn’t think the world is only 6000 years old anymore.
I’m with Spencer. That preview panel is too comically exaggerated for a situation as grave as a confrontation between Becky and/or Joyce and Mr. MacIntyre(sp?).
Okay, how about that it’s when Danny tells Joyce that he’s attracted to Ethan; Joyce doesn’t know whether to be morally scandalised or horribly jealous of a ‘rival’.
Regarding Joyce and Ethan…? It’s my feeling that it’s more complex than that. The time she broke down and needed to spend a night cuddling him makes me think that this may be turning into an unrequited situation. Joyce knows that breaking up with Ethan is the right thing to do. Her emotions might not be co-operating.
As for Danny, it’s a questioning meeting, remember? Joyce, genuinely interested mostly so that she can understand Ethan and Becky better, politely asks him what his story is. Danny, feeling safe to talk to a mostly-stranger without preconceptions tells her.
I don’t think so. Even when she snuck into his room to hold him, she realized that there relationship was going nowhere, and she doubted that Ethan could ever love her as a “future wife.” I think she stills care about him even beyond the reflexive “I have been completely awful to him and I have to make it right” and is taking great effort to fix the damage she has contributed to, but I think she’s over him as a romantic partner.
I can’t see Danny being that open about his sexuality to Joyce, since he had to work himself up to talk to Joe and Dorothy (two of his oldest friends) and with Ethan there was lots of running in circles and panicking before he was able to relax and say “I still like girls but maybe there’s something more.”
Considering Joyce has been encouraging Ethan to be openly gay finding out a guy is into him will likely activate her shipping powers. Unless she remembers about him being with Amber, Joyce is the second lest likely person to encourage cheating after Danny himself.
Joyce doesn’t know Amazi Girl is Amber. Danny was introduced to her as Amber’s friend. (Ethan made a hasty correction in that strip but I don’t think Joyce caught it).
Of course there’s a lot I disagree about with the original post. Joyce might still harbor some unrequited feelings for Ethan, but she broke up with him, and has been trying her best to be supportive him and make him feel more comfortable with his sexuality. She’s not scandalized by homosexuality like she was back when Billie told her “Everyone tries it eventually.” Second, there’s no reason for Danny to tell her how he feels. He barely knows her. (I think he might know her as Ethan’s ex? I have a feeling Ethan referred to her as his ex before the party yesterday).
UGH, oh man. Dad’s here. I hope nothing too bad happens to Becky. Or if it does, I hope Dina pounces and devours Becky’s dad’s heart. It’s a shame she’s dressed as an herbivore.
Everyone’s favorite character, Danny, has already set the bar for “worst possible handling of meeting my significant other’s abusive parent(s)” in the story.
Dina, all you have to do to come out ahead here is NOT BE DAN. Unfortunately, the circumstances leading up to an encounter with Becky’s father bear a some notable similarities to Danny first meeting Blaine.
That can’t be Becky’s dad – he looks like he belongs in a Mario Kart game! She’d have to take after her mom 100%. Maybe Willis throws a surprise down the road and we discover he’s not her biological father – Carrot Top is! Or one of the Weasley’s from Harry Potter?
I… imagine that he walked through the door. I haven’t seen any indication of door security in the hall of residence, so it wouldn’t be difficult so long as he didn’t attract the attention of campus police by being overtly threatening.
After Blaine, Ross’s soon-to-happen anti-social demonstration may lead to security being tightened with locks on the exterior doors to the halls.
Once again, my avatar speaks for myself and a good majority of the comments section. Also, to Firstie who’s birthday it is today, Happy Birthday, sorry today is the lit fuse of what is certain to be an explosive drama bomb. Mine is the 17th…which is also the first day of school for me (curse you Florida!) so we’ll see how this goes. ^-^
Personally, I hope that Amazi-Girl does not get involved except if Ross does something monumentally stupid and tries to kidnap Becky at night at some point.
I’d like for him to try to throw his authority around, fail (as there’s no-one in the room who respects said authority) and, when he tries to guilt Joyce into supporting his decisions, get shocked out of his wits by Joyce telling him to ‘poop off’ (in her own words). That’s when there is the long, abusive rant directed at Joyce and Becky that reduces both to tears.
He might also get physical, which could trigger a brawl if he hits Joyce or Becky in front of the others.
And anyway, I suspect that if Dina and Becky marry, Becky will not particularly want reminders of her family situation. If anything, Becky will likely change her name.
1) Will he find Becky even though Joyce likely won’t help him?
2) Will Becky escape in time?
3) Will he tell Joyce’s parents about the situation and get her in trouble?
4) Why is he wearing pajama pants? (Or is that supposed to be Camo?)
Yeah, but there is a hope spot in there. When Ross (FUCK YOU) was confronted by the fact that his daughter lived a life undeniably at odds with their fundie norms he dragged her from school, tried to get her to a camp and is obviously prepared to go to great lengths to control her.
I’m not so sure that Joyce parent’s will be as unyielding if it really comes down to the choice of accepting Joyce or lose her. After all, they raised a daughter who isn’t.
I’m not so sure that they will be accepting though. They grudgingly accept Joyce’s right to associate with an atheist after Joyce insists that there is a biblical backing to her actions. (And even then it looks like her mom is still against it).
Hmm, one more unreasonable, physically aggressive obsessively controlling dad to be fought off by our heroic teenage herd? Or will there be a twist somewhere in that plot? I’m thinking twist.
Tell me about it. I’m the same way about Joyce herself.
Truthfully, though, this is a sign of good writing. When an author can create something out of thin air and get his readers (or her readers, as in the case of J.K. Rowling) to invest so much emotional energy into them, that writer has a rare talent.
Okay, I can feel the set up here to be able to being AG into this. Nothing a little MURDER cant handle. Or you know the fact that Becky is a legal adult.
Well, one possibility is that his daughter being missing for a few nights after an argument has terrified Ross as much as it should a decent parent and he’s decided that even if he still doesn’t approve of the gay, it’s not worth losing his daughter over and he’s here to try to not be an asshole. To talk to Becky and help her figure out a real plan, even if it’s still not possible for her to live in the same house as him and it takes him a while to fully accept her.
also this comic deserves so many top level comments, but that last panel. I cannot talk about any of the cute shippy thoughts I was having, or even go on a dissertation about Dina’s gray-ace-spectrumness, because toedad has ruined everything. D:
Loading ...
Meet the Focker
s?? Do not want =(WORST BIRTHDAY COMIC
Happy birthday. Sorry toedad ruined it D:
…Toe dad ruins birthdays now too?! That’s pretty awful.
Oh, I’m sure we could find a worse gift for you….
Toe jam, probably.
Blaine and Ryan could be with him?
No, that would be good; it would mean they could all be caught within light ordnance’s blast radius at once, conserving ammunition.
Birthday fireworks, if you will.
Shrapnel from the shell might hit some bystanders. I propose a controlled demolition with detcord instead.
Acceptable losses.
What is that logo of?
reverse google search only shows the other comics he comments on. Also pulleys and car jacks.
Faz could be there too. Dina likes him so much.
I was kind of envisaging the story going back to Joyce and Ethan & Danny for awhile, then ending with Dina bringing a nicely tied up ToeDad to Ruth – “This was delivered to Becky by mistake. Please return it.”
But this is a Dina chapter and would miss all the drama. 🙁
I think We just figured out Dumbing of Age’s first Axis of Something.
“Axis of Assholes”
happy birthday!
Happy birthday! Sorry you don’t like your birthday comic
+1
Happy birthday!
As the philosopher Jagger once said, “you don’t always get you want but sometimes you get what you need.”
Happy Birthday!
Happy birthday Jen!
(And I think this is an AWESOME birthday comic. I’d like a drama bomb for my birthday, on Dec 21.)
You got this one tho!
OTOH I got this one
hahaha memories
WEll i mean for your birthday at least you get a lot more info on Dina’s Romanticism
The Fockers?? I’m pretty sure that’s Becky’s dad? No?
I hope you are getting to see how AWESOME your birthday gift turned out to be 🙂
Happy Birthday Jen Aside! Your comments are a surprisingly large part of why I love this comic so much! [I’m also catching up after a couple of weeks, and just realised I’m commenting long after your birthday. No matter, happy many days after your birthday as well.]
What a triangle shaped man
literal dorito
Dudito.
Nacho Padre
Tri Guy
Dude skipped leg day.
He looks like the movie version of Starscream.
I was just thinking this. Remember guys, leg day can save the day. At least for your ego as we won’t giggle as much at you.
I was going to suggest he meet Particle Man, but then I remembered that Triangle Man beats Particle Man. He also hates and beats Person Man. 🙁
Only Universe Man can help us now.
Looks menacingly powerful, but I also get the impression that he has to fight hard to not fall over all the time. Well, moreso than your typical human.
You mean Bill Cipher? The Dream Dorito?
Maybe Peridot, the Gem Dorito.
He looks like a Popeye villain…
He also looks more like a militia anti-government conspiracy guy than an actual ‘fundie’ like Joyce’s parents. Anyone else surprised and also more curious about what Joyce’s family’s private circle under their pastor is really like, as opposed to the stereotypical whitebread ‘fundies’ with fear and control issues i.e. all like Mr. and Mrs Brown, at least a fraction of us were assuming? Even if I’m making (decent probability) prejudice assumptions based on the plain white t-shirt, camo pants, and ‘character’ build and body language….The seems like Joyce and Becky’s family’s church family isn’t as conformist as Ma & Pa Brown made them seem…Not all ‘fringe’ types are left-wing or even moderate, after all.
ARE THOSE THE PARENT?
*IS
That is a scary thought. I came here for emotional torment, not physical.
*Willis takes a sip from his “I Drink My Readers Tears” mug.
it’s a very unique patreon he set up
oh, not yet, give it a few more pages.
He certainly is big enough to qualify for two parents.
Really? He looks very short to me. Just burly…Possibly because he’s so short and squat. But yes, he does look very strong. The question is, how much self-control does he have when things get as bad for his side of things as they have?
I…No!
HOLY CHEESE LOOKIT HIS NECK
What neck?
Where?! Willis forgot to give him one!
We should be really glad Becky (presumably) takes after her mother.
When necks and legs were being handed out, Toedad was at the back of the queue.
His legs seem fine, but his torso just sort of abruptly turns into them, with no evidence of any sort of waist/hips/crotch region.
And he completely forgot to get some elbows & knees.
Yeah. I was next to him.
I’m not convinced that Becky is actually related to Ross.
I think they’re of the same species, but Ross may actually be a gorilla in a human suit.
What neck? Brock Lesnar has more of a neck than this guy!
or lack thereof in this scenario
How would you know whats lacking not as if you’re a detective 😛
Huh, didn’t realize Dina’s father was brother to the Narrator from Rocky Horror Picture Show. To quote the classic callback line: “That man has no neck!”
“Where’s your neck?”
“Lost in time.”
“Name a ’60s TV show!”
It’s About Time
Apparently neck is where the compassion should be?
Those bases confuse me a lot, too.
xkcd cleared it all up here. https://xkcd.com/540/
They left off “are belonging to us” from the one label…
Winston Rowntree has his own ideas about bases (don’t worry there’s not that many words in this one)
http://www.viruscomix.com/abno40.html
That really is an abnormally small amount of words for a WR comic.
like an unattractive version of joe. ew
The Doasaurus lesbiensis is OH SHIT, THAT’S HER DAD.
Crap. The surprise of the last panel just screwed up my scientific summary of the strip.
Willis Science Daily sadly admits that…okay fuck this *grabs shotgun, tosses one to otusaio451* lets take out D. toedadias
-grabs hunting rifle- I’m coming with ya.
Well, actually, I DID manage to type a summary belo-ah, screw it. LOCK AND LOAD, we’re going hunting. Hold up, I’ll grab my assault rifle.
lemme grab my P90’s so we can shoot the guy’s kneecaps off and throw him in the Maximum Fun Chamber for a week or so
It chews trough ammo magazines quicker then then the targets hits the ground so i opt for the tactical combat knife instead(takes with me the PX4 STORM just in case)
Guys guys guys, why don’t we just get four raptors and a motorcycle and just Chris Pratt it, I hear that totally works, right?
Sure, until that dorito thing looks at them in the eyes, hisses a little and all the raptors go attacking the questioning meeting and evolutionists while screeching something that resembles “we’re just fictional animals, you have no proof we ever existed”.
Dina is spared by the way.
It really depends on .
(whoops) what kind of raptors we’re talking about.
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/comic/minibike-raptors-are-the-new-skateboard-budgies
You bunch of genogical maniacs <_<;
But I’m not certified to use a gun. I guess my axe and machete will have to do.
-hands you a crossbow- technically it’s not a gun.
Is ‘car’ an acceptable weapon for our purposes?
It’s the best way to hung most large game (to extinction.)
Oh please. Nothing makes grown men go *splat* like a good old fashioned diesel locomotive. Now where’s my cap and overalls?
Meh. I survived it.
Ditto.
I like the way you think.
Eh, shotgun isn’t personal enough. I’m going with the brass knuckles.
Is this the point at which I break out the T. Rex rifle?
Why did you make a rifle out of a T. Rex?
No, you misunderstand.
It’s not made out of a T. Rex. It fires T. Rexes.
YES!! Someone make this a real thing XD!!
I’ll go transform into RC recon drone mode & keep track of him. Don’t wanna loose the prize now, do we…
Laser musket, bongoes. Let’s go!
Bongoes? Autocorrect wouldn’t let me put the b-word. Strange-ish.
Oh every instance of the b word get replaced by bongo here, its a thing.
…bongo.
Well, blow me down.
OUr Lord and Savior Willis installed that auto-replace after a certain strip with Roz saying something inflammatory and being called a female dog by about 3/4 of commentors.
Lucky Lord Todd told me I had to wait till Nov 10th to get mine T.T
Eff it, Claymore mine taped to his belly. And no, it doesn’t matter which way it is pointed as long as the wide end is on the belly. They are lethal 5 meters to the rear or 20 meters to the front. There will be a gaping hole either way.
Guys, guys. I get that he’s not the best dad, but him showing up suggests that he cares enough to keep trying to be a dad. That counts for something, right?
Obviously he’s being kind of an asshole about it, but we haven’t actually heard from him yet. I like your taste in hardware, but let’s see what he has to say before we break it out, hmm?
Granted, I was halfway through a post involving field mortars and a flamethrower when I considered this…
No him showing up is more terrifying than anything else
Remember with ambers dad? This is not going to go well
Ehhhhhh.
Him showing up is less of a sign that he cares enough to be a dad, but rather that that is the lengths he’ll go to to impose control over his daughter’s life. While my circumstances were rather different, I know, sadly personally, how utterly shitty and paranoia inducing it can be to have a dad willing to devote that much time to breaking any form of stability you have in order to gain a position of power through which to force reparative therapy.
It’s a rather different feeling from having someone care about you like you are a human being.
He can say what he has to say as long as he doesn’t cross several invisible dotted lines within about five feet of where he’s standing (the only non-forbidden zone being a direct path back to his car). If he does, well, there might be consequences.
Among them wild dogs, femurs, vigilantes and pissed off dinosaurs.
Oh, and Joyce, who has already defied God in defense of her best friend. Toedad will NOT come away from that confrontation in one piece.
Gimme a few bucks & you can add Merc to the list :P. not getting as many jobs lately, something about someone not shutting up…
Next on “animal planet”. David Attenborough screams the world “FUCK” for two hours while punching a computer screen.
I THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO BE A FUN LITTLE STORYLINE.
This is quickly becoming “orange sweater” levels of uncomfortable.
Tyler Perry needs to take notes on Willis’ Dramedy writing skills.
well, dina has to be involved in some capacity, sooo…let’s see how this goes down?
Toe dad mentions something about evolution not being real.
random cop: Were still digging up pieces of him…theres blood everywhere!
all potential witnesses claim to have seen nothing while skipping merrily. and there appears to be a 24-hour double-rainbow over the scene
The gay agenda kinda lacks subtetly there
It can still be fun. He’s just looking for Joyce so he can find out if she knows where Becky might be, right? No more than that, just some fun wacky hijinks.
And finding her at a Questioning meet isn’t going to cause any problems. Nuh-uh.
(okay, this could go all kinds of wrong for Becky. and Joyce. and Ruth. and Billie. um. unless Willis is lining Galasso up for a beatdown?)
Actually, there’s a good point. This guy is a potentially violent homophobe who may disrupt Galasso’s attempts at learning
This guy may get a massive fucking beat down and then get arrested and banned from campus and fed his femurs to his face
You mean his FAAACE?
Becky’s dad isn’t on the authorized guest list, so there’s certainly a strong probability that Ruth will do something grisly involving his femurs. Or at least I certainly hope that’s where this is going.
Is he at the Questioning Meet? I think he’s in the lobby outside, on his way either to talk with Joyce on her parents’ tip or to track down Becky’s mobile phone with a locator app.
It’d be the former, Willis already established at the beginning of the Becky visits Joyce arc that Becky wasn’t allowed to own a mobile phone.
AHAHA
AHAHAHAHA
HA
[Mandark laugh]AHAHA
AHAHAHAHA
HA[/Mandark laugh]
this would be a good time to deploy your six-inch razor-sharp sickle-like claws of doom, dina
I refuse to believe she doesn’t have those.
Yeah, unleash the raptor and kick him in the (nonexistent) throat.
God Damn It WILLIS!
“So they want more Dina, eh? So they think that will make them happy! I’ll show them!”
And Willis cackles in his WillisDome, upon a throne of Slipshine comics and Hot Shots.
I don’t think a throne of Slipshines and Hot Shots would be very sturdy. Or comfortable for that matter.
It’s sorta like the Iron Throne. No one wants to sit on it but everyone wants it.
Well, frak; must posted while I was typing =p
So then who’d get Red Wedding’d then? I vote for Toedad.
Neither is a throne of swords, but everyone still wants to sit in it…
oh no oh no oh no oh no
Goddamn it.
Well now, things have gotten interesting
No Dinah you don’t want to go that road… you really don’t in this case.
It may be Ross who has no idea what he’s walking into.
Talk about evil…
Emotional Responses to Today’s Comic Panel by Panel:
Panel 1: Heh, evilutionist, that takes me back… Also, Joyce still being terrible at hiding any form of secret ever… huh, I wonder when that’ll bite her in the ass…
Panel 2: Dina is the best.
Panel 3: Awwww, so many compersion feels. Dina exploring romantic attraction is so utterly adorable. They are going to be the cutest couple together!
Panel 4: Yesss, more fodder for my ace spectrum Dina theory! This is the cutest comic yet this arc, nothing could spoil it. Wait, what just came out of my mouth? No, I didn’t mean it-
Panel 5: … damn you Willis.
On a serious note, this hammer was going to drop eventually. It was all just a matter of when and by the Rule of Willis, it makes sad sense that it would occur at the moment when Becky’s life was most in its upswing (best friend supporting and being emotionally honest with her, cute dino girl wanting her giblets, semi-permanent housing solution, probably working on employment or college enrollment steps based on the hints Joyce has been dropping). As such, this was probably the most dramatic time to drop that and it makes sense that it would be sooner rather than later as Joyce’s attempts to stonewall her parents had to have raised all sorts of red flags for them.
But
I wasthe characters were happy for once.on the positive side, that’s another dad that’s probably due for a forceful removal from campus
hope Dina remembers the Blaine incident =p
Dina was warned in advance about Blaine but her parents ignored her warnings. She doesn’t know anything about Becky’s dad.
And the RA may have to kick her oout, but there’s no way Ruth would let her dad drag her away. She would probably call for Lez, and SHE would say ‘Noooooope. Here’s a shelter.’
Plus Amazigirl may show up
Amazi-girl might be due to lose another fight. She was too busy freaking out over Dorothy outing Amber as her secret identity to be terribly bothered over Sal’s crew knocking her down, and I have a suspicion that Ross/Toedad is willing to hit a girl if she’s getting belligerent at him (as, let’s face, it, Amazi-girl does get at assholes she intends to hurt) and strong enough to seriously mess her up if he lands a solid hit somehow.
Yup.
Panel 1: Oh, Joyce, you so adorable, and you fight so hard to be accepting.
Panel 2: Don’t worry Joyce, you just need time to reboot, and I kinda think you are just a tiny bit jealous of Dina. She will give Becky all the mouth-smooches you couldn’t (for no fault of your own, but it must still hurt).
Panel 3: Awww. Cute Dina is cute. I love how self aware and analytic her inner dialogue is. Also that it’s not a Danny-level hearwrenching battle with her emotions, more like an idle curiosity.
Panel 4: Heh, methinks Dina is getting herself a new hobby (and I don’t mean baseball). Becky clearly made an impression, far more than just being the girl who invited her to a party, the girl who asked her about dinosaurs and the girl she smooched to make a point. There is some real chemistry at work here.
Brain: Yup, we are done.
Me: What? No, there is a panel left.
Brain: Nope, nothing to see here. Go and read TVtropes or something.
Me: OK, now you’re just being silly. Scoot over and let me…
Brain: DON’T…
Me …
Brain …
Mouth: FUCK!!!!!!!!!!
Toedad
Evilutionist?
Welcome to the Evilutionary Biologist trope.
ENJOY!
Thanks
And now, TV Tropes will ruin your life.
I think you will find that TV Tropes Will Enhance Your Life.
SUCCESS!
Ah shit…
Literally everyone’s reaction to this strip.
That is a true statement.
That last panel scared the shit out of me!
For all of you kids that are curious, Third Base is when you feel comfortable enough to fart around them.
4th Base is when you go to their niece’s shitty elementary school play and stay awake and attentive the entire time without complaining.
Or at least convincingly fake it.
Well, guess I’m never making it to 4th base ever.
A home run is when you stop caring when they eat off your plate even though you asked them if they wanted something and they said “just a salad” yet half your steak’s gone isn’t it?
a Grand Slam is a whole lotta breakfast
Protect Becky Dina!! Ram asshole father with your dinosaur horns!
Unfortunately, plush horns have no penetration.
They do if you come in at the right angle.
Um
His legs don’t look like they fit him.
I just close my eyes and wish the future unhappinesses away. *swoosh*
I was wondering when HE would show up, but I would have never have guessed it would be so soon, will he be the iceberg that will sink the maiden voyage of the USS Dicky?
Oh Dina! Please tell us you have learned your lesson and do not underestimate his assholitude.
SHITSHITSHITSHIT IT’S THE SACK OF SHIT.
SHITSHITSHITSHITPOOP
Fourth Base: Adopting the raptor pose and pouncing on the parent to protect your mate.
An apt baseball metaphor.
Baseball is played on an octagon, right? Hmm, I wonder which dinosaur would be superior at baseball. (/end Dina)
Well, Fuck-a-doodle-doo.
Dina now would be a good time to unleash the raptor.
What if she put her mind controlling hat on ethan just for this reason?
He’s a big raptor.
I can’t not think of the innuendos whenever that expression used.
We’re either gonna get an epic verbal beatdown Becky’s dad soon-ish, or he’s here to find out if Joyce knows anything about where Becky is. Good thing Becky moved out of that room, huh? “No, Mr. Becky’s Dad, she’s NOT here. Search the room yourself, then get lost.”
Is he wearing pajamas?
That’s the real question here, and I think the answer is “yes.”
No, those are army camo pants.
CLASSIC camo pants. The sort that backwoods militia types might wear, not anything the military’s used in over a decade.
And the title text says being able to see this is a bright side.
DYW.
Multiple decades.
My computer does this thing where it gets rid of blue light in the evening, which makes colors a little funky sometimes, and as a result I legitimately thought he was wearing fuzzy blue pajama pants until this morning.
*opens computer*
*goes to DoA*
*sees pajama pants in broad daylight*
“OHHHHHHHHHH so THAT’S what he’s wearing!”
First, I’d like to congratulate Willis. You have an incredible sense of humor and comic timing.
Second, OMFG HAHAHAHA HE LOOKS LIKE HE’S ANSWERING THE CASTING CALL FOR THE REMAKE OF DELIVERANCE.
I mean seriously did he go to sleep in those clothes and was just in a rush? Or does he always dress like he’s just broken out of jail? Does he ever get sad at the prospect of being central casting for “domestic abuser who the hero beats up to impress the audience”? Why would his wife let him go in public looking like that?
although we can’t assume taste to be the most prominent sense of a woman who married swamp-thing, i would like to think that his wife would have stopped him had she been there. but as becky said, it’s “just [her] dad” so it’s either divorce or illness. i assume illness, since they are fairly christian, and also since becky was left with…that.
Considering custody disputes usually lean in favor of the mother, I shudder to think of what the mom had to have been like for fucking Bob Ewell over there to have won.
kind of smelly
That makes sense.
By which he means dead.
Yup.
If I remember correct, US child custody cases only lean in the mother’s favour in some cases. The mother most often ends up with the child when the matter is settled out of court, or if neither parent wants the child. If both parents want custody of the child, the father usually wins in court.
You indeed recall correctly.
http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2012/04/child_supportcu.html
Yep. And abusive fathers are more likely to be awarded custody, because they’re more likely to seek it.
Yeah, got to agree with Eukie here. I know someone who’s currently in a custody dispute with her soon-to-be ex husband, who is ABUSIVE, over her two teenage children. It’s currently going largely his way.
I’m pretty sure that Becky’s dad is a walking, talking self-parody of ‘Joe Six-Pack’ small-town middle America.
Can we tell that from his zero lines of dialogue so far? (Well the implied lines of dialogue he had are somewhere along the lines of “You’re going to a pray the gay away camp.” That’s not really a parody)
He’s probably the same prick as he was in Joyce % Walky!, the guy who thinks dancing is a form of demonic possession.
Ah, I never did read the J&W subscription strips. (And I don’t believe he appeared outside those). I was just confused as to where the OP was getting parody from his character because so far his defining trait seems to be having control over his daughter’s life. That’s pretty serious.
Actually, he strikes me as a MilDad, so far – I’ve seen the type. Ex-military (possibly a reservist), patriotic, conservative, often religious, very strictly orthodox uhMERcun in just about everything he does. Probably requires the same of his daughter.
Wait, what? I’ lost now, whose parent is it? tell me it’s not Becky’s dad, please…
Oh shit, I’m not liking this
Okay, we won’t tell you that it is Becky’s dad.
*whispers* even though it really is.
not anymore…
That guy is built like a brick shithouse. He also looks like a brick shithouse. I’m sure he smells like a brick shithouse. By that logic he probably also tastes like a brick shithouse, although I doubt anyone would want to try. And I’m not too sure if he’d Feel like a brick shithouse but he does look sturdy and rough so maybe. Time will only tell if he sounds like a brick shithouse.
How come you know what a brick shithouse looks,feels and, taste like?
BRICK HARDMEAT
Do we judge his sounds based on his speech pattern or the thwackings dealt against him?
It speaks???!!
You know, he also thinks like a brick shithouse.
How insulting to brick shithouses everywhere.
We’re gonna need Amazi-Girl’s “kick-the-shit-out-of-dads” ability in here, stat.
No, she only has the power to kick the asses of asshole dads. Mind you it still applies here, but she is limited. If he’s coming to apologize and accept Becky, AG will be powerless against him.
HOW DID YOU KNOW SHE WAS HERE, YOU TOWER HEADED WAD?!
My guess, he knows that Joyce is Becky’s best friend so he came looking for Joyce in the hopes that she knows where Becky is.
As I read the last panel, the classic “doom” sound effect played in my mind: DUN DUN DUUUUUN…
Rats! I wanted to do the DUN DUN DUNNNN!!!! bit.
Dammit. And Ruth can’t be of help either, as Becky isn’t a student. Aaaaa!
She can kick him out, since he isn’t a student or the parent of one. Whether that can happen without Becky’s non-student status being revealed is another question.
Hey, if this leads to Ruthless shoulder-tossing him, I will be happy as fuck.
Oh fricktits.
oh my god I looooove cheerful thoughtful Dina in panel 4
REVENGE OF THE TOE-DAD
…btw, is he supposed to look like the Disappoint Dad? http://i.imgur.com/P8ilx0e.gif?fb
He is supposed to look like the original Mr McIntire from the original run of Joyce & Walky! which I would find a link for but I can’t/don’t want to.
That’s because he was in Faans in a Willis-drawn cannon guest strip.
Considering how old the original character is, he might actually predate the “Son I am disappoint” meme. So, it could be said that Disappoint Dad is supposed to look like this guy.
Perf’ blend of wacky cenesy and dark drama in that last panel.
Well, on the bright side, at least it isn’t Ryan like I feared it would be.
This is just the perfect fundieness. “I don’t mind anymore the lesbianism, but… but… you’re not a creationist!“
Give her time.
…Lots of time.
Becky is already leaning toward the other side (no pun unintended), so Joyce may be saved just yet.
“The man you are about to see has no fucking neck.” — RHPS.
Yes it’s true. This man has no dick.
HOLY SHIT HE’S HUGE SOMEBODY GET A TRANQUILIZER GUN
BIG MCLARGE HUGE
Preferably a elephant Tranquilizer gun.
I will give you the sign, just aim for his behind….
ahem Paleoecologists have observed the adult males of the Doasaurus lesbiensis. Often playfully referred to as Doasauross (for reasons unknown to science), the adult male members of this species are theorized to have driven away the juvenile females during a formative period f development. Whlst the reasons for this separation have been lost in time, it is known that the juvenile female individuals would travel a certain distance until finding the nests of Doasurus brunneis, with whom they would form long-lasting and meaningful relationships, the nature of which is still being debated by paleoecologists. It is not known whether the adult male members of the species had contact with their female offspring after the initial separation. However, paleoecologists predict that these interactions, were they to occur, would end disastrously. It is possible that other species, such as D. brunneis and D. saruyamensis would intervene with these interactions. Some paleoecologsists have predicted that larger, more dangerous species may also interfere with these reactions. These species would include the reclusive D. clintoni and the highly feared and frighteningly aggressive D. lessick. Time will tell what new discoveries will yield.
Excuse me, but I’ve not been aware of D. lessick. Is this a new species, or is this merely a renaming of a specimen that was previously known as Femorus rex?
I thought it was a renaming of D. lesse.
D. lessick is a synonym for both F. rex and D. lesse. Officials are still debating on whether F. rex is valid, or whether the species is part of the genus Doasaurus. The names Doasaurus rex, D. femorus, and D. f. rex have also been suggested to describe the species.
I would be in whole-hearted agreement with D. femorus rex.
Thank you. I was also thinking that Ruth’s dinosaur name needed a ‘Rex’ on it.
As well as Galasso’s, when we finally get around to it…
That has become a moment danyium.
Damm this infernal touchpad.
“the nature of which is still being debated by paleoecologists”
And shippers
David…why……..
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy nooooooooooooo
Fight him, Dina
Need more teeth.
Wrong hoodie
Oh HELLLLLL no!!
Is the end of the story drunk-driving Blaine running him down, and the doctor that spends the entire day operating on him is the only one who could’ve saved Ryan from the face infection from the broken glass?
hah! you’re an eternal optimist, huh?
Willis has gone to the Bruce Timm school of male design for Ross, I see. Skinny legs, gradually lead to HUGE CHEST and arms leading up then normal head. Give him a shave and a cowl and you’d have a Batman
Looks more like a Gotham cop to me.
I AM THE TOE!
I just said “uh oh” out loud
You and me both.
Son, I am dissapoint.
Ok, am I missing something?
….where is this Becky “leaving” coming from?
Joyce told everyone Becky would only be staying for the weekend because it is against the rules to have long-term guests.
Dina, like most of the cast, is still under the impression that Becky is just Joyce’s visiting friend. Who is in no way living at the school and will therefore obviously be going home sometime soon.
Becky’s facade was visiting the college to see Joyce, but people don’t visit a college forever. they stay or they go.
Dina along with many still think Becky’s only visiting. I think only Sarah and Billie know she’s hanging around long term, maybe a few others.
Walky and Dorothy know, possibles are Ethan, Sal and Mike.
Death Battle: The One with the Triangular Smile VS Triangular Dad.
Maybe he’s just questioning too? ……maybe? :c
+1 to you. this is the best yet
he should become an amazigirl villain and his name should be Big Toe
No wait.
Toe Jam.
And his weapon is a guitar.
Considering how badly Dina felt about trusting Blaine and letting him into hers and Amber’s room, I’m betting she’s not going to fall for whatever Wario tries to pull here
This is exactly what I was thinking- this is Dina’s chance to make up for Blaine.
He’s not Blaine levels of shitty exactly, but he’s probably in second place for awful DOA parent. That’s… quite impressive, given how jerky some of them are.
Is there some sort of connection between B- names and shitty parenting? I mean, Becky is probably short for Rebecca, right?
There’s some sort of connection between being a DoA character and shitty parenting. The Keeners and the Snows are about the only decent ones we’ve seen. (The Warners produced Mike. ‘Nuff said.)
Dina’s parents seemed decent enough. Danny’s were rather shitty to him, but not to a huge level.
The Saruyamas aren’t shitty in the same way that Blaine or Ross are, in the sense of being horrible excuses for human beings, but being completely passive and unassertive isn’t good parenting, either.
The Wilcoxen’s constant subtle message that Danny is only as good as the woman who’s carrying him probably goes a long way towards explaining why Danny is so Danny.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OH GOD HIS NECK GOT BIGGER!
What neck? He’s giving Brock Lesner a run for his money in the Neckless category.
I was gonna follow up with a joke about Ed from EEnE but I looked that dude up first and holy crap! O.O
Eddy is a no-neck chump
When do we start the Damning of the Willis?
I’ve been preemptively damming him for weeks.
…. we stopped?
Ross looks sorta like Herman Munster…
I’M BECKY’S DAD. MY FRONT IS A BACK.
The hell is that in his hand?
prolly a mug shot to locate his “lost” daughter
NO
WILLIS
YOU DIDN’T
(of course you did)
Dina really should have worn her T-rex hat today.
OH LOOK, LET ME RUIN YOUR HAPPINESS
You like the cute dinosaur girl’s inner dialogue and sweet little budding relationship, do you, then you will LOVE an abusing turd in the form of a toe.
Gotta disagree with you Mr. W.! Knowing what he looks like from the chest down is NO bright side. Good grief.
All is going more or less good,…..so enter Mr. Becky’s Dad.
Dina is so cute. Makes perfect sense she’s more interested in all she can learn, before wondering about personal involvement.
Damn, I’m glad she will not be too involved when the shit hits the fan.
Back years ago: First base: holding hands, maybe arm over the shoulder in the movie. Second base: Kiss. Third Base: a feel under the clothes, seeing under the clothes.
“Going all the way” just what it sounds like.
That ain’t no bright side that I know of.
His backside, on the way out, forever
Of course everyone is assuming he’s actually the giant asshole Becky claims he is. It’s possible she overreacted, or that she’s out and out lying about what happened. On the other hand Joyce has said nothing that contradicts the idea of him being a nasty, and you’d think Joyce might have a bit of an idea when Becky has been lying.
yes! this is exactly what i was thinking! wouldn’t you know it, becky has overblown the rebellious thing while her dad was trying to be a nice, caring, understanding guy. he looks so ragged and pj’d cuz he’s been searching for his darling daughter without sleep for days. he turns up at this event to maybe find her, but also to understand her better. he just wants them to be a family again. becky hasn’t really loved him since her mother…
i’m sorry, but why can’t i believe my own heartfelt back story while looking at his face?
probably because Willis has said that these are the same characters, just in a different universe, and This (http://walkypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ross_MacIntyre) is her father from the first universe. He believed dancing was evil the first time around, so I just gotta imagine he’s gonna be just as tolerant this time around.
Aww, guess he’s NOT all tentacles down there… (or maybe they’re all stuffed into the camo pants?)
Toedad is presumably friends with Joyce’s parents, however.
You’re somewhat influenced by the company you keep.
Groups that do not expose themselves to opposing view points (like many “Christian” Americans) tend to echo chamber themselves into more and more extreme “viewpoints” over time.
Joyce’s parents believed that Dorothy has not morals since she was an Aethiest* which is a common delusion among these religious groups.
* http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/moral/
Okay, I’m a bit baffled here. Are you doubting the part where A: he pulled her out of school because she was gay? Because I’m not seeing holes in that. Or, B: he wanted to put her in a ‘fix-the-gay’ camp? Because both of those are very believably especially when we consider what sort of world both Becky and Joyce were raised in. What exactly is prompting us to throw doubt on Becky in this circumstance?
I see nothing, except that she had to develop as a very good liar because she was homosexual in a household that had no tolerance for it, which actually adds to the credibility of her story.
So are we considering Becky’s father as a neutral figure until proven otherwise to give a ‘reasonable chance’ to a parent, who we consider to be the caretaker of the family? Why, when we hear from a child’s mouth credibly stories about how abusive their family is, is there then a compulsion to turn to the family, put a considerate hand on their shoulder and ask ‘is it true?’ over a friendly lunch?
This.
It’s a common thing, especially when the one traumatized is non-normative in some way and the one doing the traumatizing is more normative. We want to believe that children are overblown and brown to overblowing everything and that the illusion of a home as a stable supportive suburban fantasy is what is going on and is more common than its alternatives.
Sadly, working with abused kids, often the reverse is true and the kids are much more likely to downplay the sheer level of shit they’ve been receiving and what they are suffering owing to a combination of their parents training a particular idea of a “normal” home environment, internalized shame from our tendency to blame victims, and the overall skepticism that is placed on youth who take an extraordinary risk in telling someone.
When telling an authority is likely to get you overly scrutinized and your parents told about the “accusations” to “see if they’re true”, that quickly becomes a dangerous thing to do. And that’s before all the training that telling others is “betraying the family” and being “bad” and therefore deserving of “punishment”.
When we’re not mired in it, I imagine it is comforting to want to drift to a world where we think the best of abusers until irrevocably shown otherwise… and even then.
The awesome thing about this comic is that it shows how abusers use that desire to see good and earnestness in them to get what they want. See Blaine exploiting the good host nature of Dina’s family or selling the concerned parent shtick to Danny.
It is possible that Becky, overwrought with everything (including her fantasies about her and Joyce exploding on the launch pad) may have exaggerated her father’s behaviour. However, I’m not expecting him to turn out 180-degrees from the way he’s been described so far.
It’s true, he could turn out to be a magical space unicorn and not a control freak who was shown in flashback panels to be literally physically dragging her out of the school and telling her she needed to be “fixed” for her own good.
It’s not likely, but technically, in an infinite universe it could be true.
Seriously though, there’s no “up” from trying to force someone into reparative “therapy” or imposing the level of control over a life that we’ve already seen him impose (let’s not forget that Frozen was on the banned list simply because it suggests parental authority can be wrong and questioned).
Seriously. Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Becky, she was not exaggerating Ross’ awfulness. The guy was seen physically grabbing her before she ran. He was talking about how Becky had to be disciplined and fixed – No points for guessing what that’s referring to! – so there is no frigging way Ross will turn out to be anything other than a walking, toe shaped pile of human shit.
So, in your desire to say Becky’s a liar, you’re also calling Willis a liar? Because his comments on tumblr, as well as flashbacks, have shown him to be a complete asshole, and he was a complete asshole in the prior verse. This, because it’s so unbelievable there was a control freak reparation-therapy-pushing asshole among the parents in a comic set in Indiana? Yeah… no. This guy is almost definitely an asshole who aspires to be an asshole of Blaine’s caliber.
I’m not sure how Becky overreacted to something along the lines of “I’m sending you to therapy, get in the car now.” I mean we didn’t see his dialogue, but it really seemed like Becky only had two choices here, and Ross doesn’t recognize the choice she made (running away) as legitimate because he’s here now.
As for whether she’s lying, we can be pretty sure that she’s telling the truth. Remember that Joyce knows Becky’s dad. She knows his religious views are very similar to everyone else in her pre-college social circles. (And thus, she would expect him to react to Becky being a lesbian in such a manner). And she knows that he’s pretty controlling, even compared to her parents. (Becky wasn’t even allowed a cell phone). It’s pretty safe to say that Ross is a control freak homophobe.
This ship has SAILS!
And Toedad has his cannons aimed right at em.
Why are all the dads in this comic the worst people in the world?
Aw, Sierra’s dad is great!
But yeah, it’s mostly because we focus on the most dramatic ones in a story. Who are inevitably the evil ones. On the plus side, we get really convenient hate-targets.
Charles Walkerton is less terrible to Sal than Linda!
Danny’s dad isn’t any more casually abusive to his son than his wife… wait no.
Uhh… Mr. Billingsworth is also totally inattentive of his daughter?
Oh hey, Ruth’s dad can’t abuse her because he’s dead…
Well I’m sure Dr. Rosenthal only cheated like once or twice!
Dina’s dad seemed decent enough.
I was mostly joking. There’s very rarely a good parent / bad parent dynamic in DoA, other than Amber’s parents, so you have the good parents (the Keeners, the Snows, the Warners and presumably the Saruyamas) and all the others, who exist to explain why some of the characters are the way they are.
Sierra’s dad and Dotty’s dad are great. Sal n’ Walky’s dad doesn’t have enough of a backbone to stop his wife from being a jackass to their kids, but he seems perfectly decent on his own merits.
It’s more that parents, in general, are bad in this comic, and to varying degrees (I feel 90% positive that Billie’s dad would legit like to spend more time with Billie, mostly because I don’t think Willis wants to make all the parents unrepentant bastards when he’s about to become a dad, and he hasn’t defined Billie’s dad), than that fathers are terrible.
Becky’s dad
He looks kind of mad
He most certainly is
Some kind of cad
oh hey, i’m reminded yet again how becky’s dad is basically the bro of the guy in the old 4chan “son i am dissapoint” meme.
I was confused that 40 minutes after posting there were this many comments.
And then I got to the last panel.
Oh.
Oh.
Not good.
He has a joe sized torso, danny sized legs and a giant toe for a head.
Was he intended to look utterly ridiculous?
He’s actually Danny and Joe’s son from the future, sent back in time to stop them from making a colossal mistake.
Somehow I could actually see that happening in a universe that is parallel to the Walkyverse. I mean Walkyverse Joe has the technology.
Sorry, I know this is dramatic and damn-you-willis and all, but I’m having a difficult time not laughing at Toedad’s pants.
Seems like Dina gets her notes on relationships from Walkyverse Joyce.
Bryan gets a tag on this strip? I guess we see part of his arm on the edge of a frame… I assume that’s whose arm it is, just based on yesterday’s strip…
Just an arm is nothing, remember back when two fingers was enough to have Sal tagged on a comic.
Kinky.
Dammit Willis! I can’t see a way for this to progress without Dina getting hurt. This is NOT OKAY.
Hm, he looks alot more burned out than he did in that flashback. Foreshadowing or a design change?
Damn you Willis! Joyce JUST HAD one breakthrough on the “gays are people too” front! It’s too early to set her up for another mindscrew “wait evolution isn’t a ploy of the devil?” epiphany!
…. oh, and fams drams is happening too, I guess? Probably not, though. I’m sure that Dina will make a good first impression on her future father-in-law by helpfully providing him with directions. What’s the worst that could happen?
Lookee there. someone done shaved Harry the Hairy Ape and left his ‘stash. Where’s that dude shop? The Skid Row Mission Thrift Store? I threw out a pair of pants like that in 1973. It was the style then, okay?
that is the most awkwardly shaped man i have ever seen
Dammit, Willis, THIS is why we can’t have nice things.
We were all having such a good time, and then fucking toedad the constipated butthole has to show up and ruining all the fun.
WHY, ROSS. WE WERE HAVING SUCH A GOOD TIME.
amazi-girl better pull a blaine on ross i swear to god
All the fun of beating up an abusive parent without the tragic mental breakdown!
dun dun duuuun
That dude has the physique of that weird white roided-looking horse from that show with the tiny horses.
YEAH!!
Bulk biceps xD
I take pride in fully understanding this comment.
NOPE
-dives into dinosaur sleeping bag-
BUT ALSO
awww at Dina’s internal monologue.
I kinda forgot about that when I saw the last panel and started screaming abuse at the laptop, but yeah, her inner dialogue is adorable.
Oh no! Go away go away!
We’re going to see how people other than Amber deal with shitty dads! There will be more ways to contrast the ways different characters deal with shitty situations. Oh my!
We’ve actually been seeing how Becky deals with the PTSD of a terrible raising environment compared to Amber for awhile now. The way she’s creepily good at putting on a face of everything’s okay and normal while everything is brewing and boiling over inside in terms of anger and sadness. The way she only lets herself break down when she’s alone or in a safe removed place and even then how she tries to push through it if the place she’s in feels public in any way or under scrutiny by others.
And she likes to use silliness as a deflection.
But I have a feeling it will all come tumbling down and we’ll see the raw rage at the injustice of it all we saw hinted in the flashback panel where she references his desire to “fix” her if they should encounter again.
Yup. We have seen a LOT of Becky’s cooping mechanisms… and the fact that she is so good at them, and that her best friend since forever didn’t peg on the fact that something was wrong, says something very ugly about life in the Mcintyre household right there.
Oh yeah.
Having to hide that much and having to get that good at hiding things says at the very least that the home environment was controlling as fuck.
And hints at the potential of a lot worse than that. After all, when it’s literal life and death to be able to pretend that everything is all right, wouldn’t you get a LOT of practice?
I started this strip looking forward to more Dina smiles. Thanks, Toe Dad. Hopefully, Becky won’t be around when he finds Joyce and she’ll be able to get rid of him somehow. On the other hand, it is this comic, so I’m not optimistic.
This will not end well.
“Hello mam, have you seen my daughter? She is missing.”
*hands Dina photo of Becky.*
“Also, have you see. My neck? It is missing as well.” *Hands Dina photo of neck.*
Perhaps his neck was Raptured.
I had a friend who thought first base was getting to know each other.
Well, in a way..
What is that IS becky’s dad in the background???
Wouldn’t that be JUST LIKE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THIS COMIC
The last panel looks like a set-up for a few ethnic jokes about Eastern Europeans. It just doesn’t qfit the art we’ve seen, and it scares me a little.
Er, that should be “the idea of Becky and me kissing”. It’s “the idea of us kissing”, not “the iidea of we kissing.”
*idea
“The idea of Becky and I kissing” is actually the correct phrase, “The idea of Becky and me kissing” wouldn’t be ‘proper’ English. Though it would still be reasonable enough to hear teenagers say, because lol teenagers and proper english.
(Though this is irrelevant as Dina always uses correct English anyway~)
Don’t think it should be “I” there. If you make it “eating” and remove Becky, would it be “The idea of I eating” or “The idea of me eating”? I think it’d be “me”, so it’s still “me” if it’s kissing instead of eating, and it’s still “me” if Becky’s there, too.
Of course, most technically, “kissing” may actually be a gerund, thus formally necessitating the possessive forms – “The idea of Becky’s and my kissing”. I think it’s right (it’s definitely “my” if it’s a single person and “eating”), but someone might confirm that!
I think you could take ‘kissing’ as either a gerund (would you be upset by Becky’s and my kissing) or a present participle (would you be upset by Becky and me kissing). In practice it’s mostly treated as a participle in spoken English, though some texts are sticklers for gerunds.
Even if she intended it as a gerund, it’s generally accepted that skipping the possessive nouns is permissible for complex constructions once it starts getting awkward enough.
ex. “Men and women kissing in public is unacceptable!”
http://dianahacker.com/bedhandbook6e/subpages/posgerund.html
I’m a little stumped on how that substitution works when one of the owners of the gerund is yourself though. “Joyce objects to our kissing” is fine, but if you want to enumerate the owners do you go from “Becky’s and my kissing” to “Becky and I kissing” or “Becky and me kissing”?
I honestly don’t know… the second one *seems* a little more right, but I think that’s just because it looks like kissing is a participle modifying “Becky and me”. If Dina got there via the gerund exception, I’m stumped. I think all the the staunchest prescriptivist would just tell you to do what “sounds right” at that point.
Nope. The pronoun depends on what function it’s performing in the sentence, so in this case it’s ‘me’. It’d be ‘the idea of Becky kissing’ and ‘the idea of me kissing’, not ‘the idea of I kissing’. The presence of ‘and’ doesn’t change that.
OTOH, if you make Becky and Dina the subjects of the verb, not the objects of a preposition, then you’d go for ‘I’. ‘Would you be upset if Becky and I kissed’ is totally cromulent. It’s the difference between ‘Becky and I went to lunch’ and ‘Joyce took Becky and me to lunch’ or ‘Joyce went to lunch with Becky and me’.
I was going to reply to this but got beaten by multiple people. Way to grammar, guys.
I could see Dina hyper-correcting to “Becky and I” precisely because of her desire to speak in “proper” English/be sure she’s understood.
I could also see Dina overcorrecting, especially after her speech patterns were poked at by Sarah, but webcomic writers are also human, and a lot of people get this one wrong. Even or perhaps especially people who think they use only the most proper English, like our friend a few comments up.
On TV and in movies, you frequently hear characters who are grammar pendants, written by people who are not, overcorrect for “I/me” and who/whom. Part of it is simply the writer trying to take every opportunity presented to remind the viewers/readers that this character is a stickler for grammar. Like… they’re overcorrecting as characterization.
http://www.dramabutton.com/
I’m guessing that the guy built like a bull is Becky’s dad. He is exactly as I had imagined him! I suppose this is both a good thing and a bad thing because little will be achieved if Becky remains in limbo.
That doesn’t mean that there won’t be trouble. I’m pretty sure that Joyce is going to end up in trouble with her family and Becky’s dad may end up tangling with the local night-life like Amazi-Girl and Sal.
I’m sure lots of people will be angry with Joyce today but you have to remember that, in the end, no matter how misguided, her reaction is purely motivated by concern for Becky. It’s interesting that, on a subconscious level, there is a part of Joyce that sees little inoffensive Dina as really, really threatening.
We did see him once in a prior comic, during the series were we get the story of Becky leaving Anderson. He does do the stereotypical look thing very well! Extra scary!
Oh boy, if she’s in Billie’s area AND Sal’s also in the room, that could be explosive.
But remember, Sal’s not allowed to hit anyone.
No hitting, got it.
Stabbing’s okay, right?
(hey, it’ll be cathartic for her)
I expect blades to be more Malaya’s thing.
Unless she’s wearing a mask. Hey, it works for Amber…!
She slugged her father without her mask on (back during the parents visit).
NOOooOooooooooooo
I didnt want this
I wanted to read cute Dina hijinks with occasional Becky flirts not this
This isnt going to end well for anyone D:
I was almost, ALMOST, thinking that maybe this would be a lighthearted story that had Dina being adorable and a sideplot with Danny and Ethan.
I really should have felt something coming. Not this though. Not this.
Noooooo !
The last comics were so cute. Why did we have to even things up with this incoming shitstorm ?
Oh God, Oh God, no. I just want Dina cuteness, not horrible horrible familly members and feels.
I hate this guy.
I can’t stop laughing at this guy.
Its his general expression that does it for me
it looks angry, disapproving and uncomfortable all in one!
And kinda constipated.
Daaaaaaaaaaaamn yoooooouuuuuuuuu Williiiiiiiiiiiis
^ This
Seconded
Let’s take a moment to consider
That Becky doesn’t have a home
That Becky doesn’t have a school or a job
That Becky’s sole belonging is her Anderson’s hoodie
That Becky’s first kiss ended in her fleeing into the night
That Becky’s only support right now comes from having to ask her best friend to lie to her parent
That Becky has almost nothing but runs every risk of loosing even that.
Because of this butt-hole.
FUCK YOU ROSS!!!!!!!
Well, what kind of asshole homophobic abuser would he be if he simply let Becky live her life after taking every form of support and possession from her? I mean, that could open the possibility of her actually thriving in her new state without him thus making him feel small and no one makes him or his torso feel small.
We simply can’t have that.
racksafrasin Frozen teaching my property she can run away (bitter Rossian mumbling)
Clearly the best solution is if he is in full control of Becky’s every life choice no matter how small because clearly he has such a swimming track record.
BUTT!!!!
Uh oh, it’s Ross, and he looks super disappoint.
Suddenly Toedad! Is standing behind you!
I’m horrible at filk, so there’ll be no more of Little Campus of Horror.
you will definitely have to pretend
FFFFFFFFF–
Okay, cover up the right side of the final panel. Cutest Dina expression yet!
Dear commenters, as we’re ending the Sexuality Questioning sessions, I have one 🙂
Based on the fact that, in the modern society, we agreed that gender roles were basically meaningless ( as you can like knitting and wear skirts and still be a man and play football and like computers and be a woman), what do being “intersex” could possibly mean?
I don’t get it.
I mean, transsexuals I get it. You’re born with a set of genitals that does not correspond to the set of genitals your brain prefer.
But intersex, or gender fluid? Like, what does feeling 30% male and 70% female MEANS? (If we of course set apart the case of hermaphrodites).
There are societies with traditionaly separated gender roles that do have additional genders, that’s OK. But that’s because they have separated gender roles. It’s not the case in modern society.
So I don’t get it. Somebody to explain to me? 🙂
So first off, not transsexuals – that’s not a good word, by and large. Transgender is preferred.
Genderfluid folks come in many shapes. One of my friends has female-feeling days and male-feeling days, and prefers a pronoun be used for them that doesn’t imply a gender in case it’s uncomfortable.
And some folks simply don’t feel much connection with gender.
And there are other possibilities, too…
Plus, the biology isn’t always black-and-white either. Not everyone has either XX or XY chromosomes, and (while there’s a lot more to it than ‘which set of genitals you have’) what’s on the outside of your body can be ambiguous or at odds with what’s on the inside.
I’m not sure where the science currently stands on being ‘neurotypically fe/male’ – I’ve heard it both ways recently – but it’s probably best to think of both sex and gender as being a spectrum with weighting towards the ends but encompassing a full range of natural variation. And that’s without getting into the purely sociological aspects of our various cultural norms for how men / women are expected to behave.
It’seems not just “not black-and-white”, there are like 20 distinct physical genders.
@Pilgrim.
OK then, transgender.
So, your friend, does s/he behaves differently on male days than on female days? Does her brain scans show different particularities even (I don’t know if differences btw both brains exist, though)? What does it mean is my question 🙂 What does “feeling male” entail when you’re fine with the genitals you have anyway?
And why would s/he be uncomfortable with a particular pronoun? In english there’s she or he or it, but some languages have no gender marks on pronouns, and some (like mine native, french), have gendered everything . Why not just pick one and feel how you want to feel anyway?
I mean, isn’t the endpoint of Queer revendications not the right to difference, but the right to indifference?
@SDGlyph.
That’s why I’m not talking about the special biological cases 🙂 My question is very specifically, in a society with no defined gender roles, what does “feeling male/female” means for those who are perfectly fine with the set of genitals they have?
For example, my friend has a vagina, is straight, likes hiking, pants, and martials arts. She identify herself as “female”. Now, if she identified herself as “male”, but kept the rest intact, what does it mean? What has changed?
//
Maybe so you can better understand my question, I’ve recently come across a fun internet group called the “otherkins”. It’s people who feel they’re born the wrong specie . Some of them feel they’re in fact cats, or panthers, or dragons. In a human body.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m quite sure that there’s a difference with gender fluid individuals. I just can’t put my finger on it at the moment. Therefore, I’m looking for answers 🙂
(PS: As a note so people don’t get the wrong idea, I have no trouble with any oddity that humans can come up with, as long as they’re not destructive. We all have weird aspects. I just want to understand:)
I think it’s just a feeling that can’t really be explained. As far as I can tell, there are a lot of concepts like that, which quite possibly can’t be explained, as the relevant mental concepts just don’t exist the same way in everyone. From the sound of it, your mental gender is quite possibly neutral/whatever you want to call it, although I may be projecting. Kind of like asexuality, but relating to gender rather than sexual preference.
Sometimes people are born with physical characteristics that are not clearly those of either stereotypical sex, having for example ambiguous genitalia. Or they are born appearing to be one sex and develop an intersexed condition later (e.g. starting at puberty).
“Intersex” in Wikipedia
5-alpha reductase deficiency in Wikipedia.
I hope I got those HTML tags right.
It refers to having physical characteristics that are not unambiguously those of either sex, such as ambiguous genitalia. There’s a reasonably informative article about it in Wikipedia.
Also, as a straight up FYI Intersex generally is the preferred word for those you are currently referring to as hermaphrodites.
I wish I kinda had a handy “gender 101” *literally* link around, but I don’t. And I don’t know *how* good wikipedia is, so I’m cautious to recommend it. Others have all made good comments so far though.
Okay, let’s see if I can help.
There are quite a few things that often get inflated together when the general public is discussing “gender”. In reality, this general category refers to a list of various categories that are formed out of different systems.
Sex assigned at birth: Is what the doctor slaps on your birth certificate at birth based on a cursory glance at the genitals. It may or may not conform to actual gender identity and may or may not match chromosomal makeup (XX males and XY females are a thing) and may or may not match hormonal palate during pubescence.
*Okay, the big glowing ball in the room for all this is that biology likes spectrums, because biodiversity in Biological terms equals safety for a sexually reproducing species. So the more “atypical” the species has, the more range of experiences it can develop, the healthier the species is. However, Western, especially American societies love binary systems (you’re a liberal or a conservative, you’re black or you’re white, you’re straight or you’re gay, and so on and so forth). As such, we tend to flatten everything into that pattern whether it naturally fits or not. So, we socially created a concept of biological sex, where the genitals match the chromosomes match the hormones match the gender identity and often times can’t handle where a) that’s proven wrong, and worse b) where that’s proven wrong because there isn’t even a binary.
So our first stop is intersex: Intersex individuals are those who have an ambiguous genitalia configuration at birth (and honestly, should also apply to individuals with atypical hormonal patterns at puberty and conditions like Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and PCOS). Current medical practice to enforce the illusion of a binary is to perform surgery on these babies when born to “make their genitalia fit one state or the other” to prevent “bullying”. Sometimes this is done without even informing the parent. Intersex children are often likely to have atypical hormonal patterns growing up and can often develop during first puberty secondary sex characteristics associated with both men and women (thick body hair and breast growth for instance). Additionally, said individuals may or may not have both testes and ovaries within their system.
Being intersex however says nothing about an individual’s gender.
Which leads us to Gender Identity: Gender identity is what gender we more or less are. It’s the feeling of comfort or discomfort in being regarded as one gender or other genders. This is where a large part of cisgender versus transgender issues come into play.
Cisgender: Means that your gender identity, what gender you are, matches what was assigned at birth. It doesn’t really have anything to do with gender roles or gender performance outside of the necessity of operating with those in order to avoid discrimination. So, someone labeled female at birth who identifies as a woman would be a cis woman even if they had short crew cut, only wore ultra-masculine clothes and worked in a steel mill.
Transgender: A blanket of identities where one doesn’t identify, where one’s gender doesn’t match what was assigned. This can include the most prominent examples. Trans men and trans women who identify with a binary identity (man or woman) that differers from what they were assigned at birth. This can also include non-binary individuals.
Non-binary: This is back to that whole spectrum thing from before. While most individuals have a gender identity that matches the man-woman binary we like to impose, that is not universally reflected in gender identities. Some individuals feel they actually identify somewhere in between those two states (genderqueer) and will often choose gender-neutral pronouns to match (singular they, ze, zie, xe, ey, etc…). Some individuals feel they are completely absent from the binary and identify as neither and feel very uncomfortable and dysphoric** when assumed to be of a binary gender (this describes agender individuals the most frequently). Some individuals view themselves as exploding the whole binary entirely (genderfuck), while others have their gender identity in flux where somedays they feel like one gender and somedays like another and what feels dysphoric** often matches to that (this is what genderfluid means). Still others may identify as men and women simultaneously or in two different circumstances during their day to day life (this is bigender). This is all due to gender being as much a spectrum as sexuality (because you have people who are gay or straight or bi or ace or whose sexuality fluctuates throughout life or is in a grey-area between ace and one of the others).
**Dysphoria: An intense negative feeling associated with being constantly treated and reminded of the lack of congruity between gender identity and what society treats you as or what certain modes of dress/body shape feels to you. It’s a crippling experience that can cause massive depression, suicidal ideation, and so on if not treated by finding means of internally and externally aligning one’s gender performance, body shape, and treatment by others.
Which leads us to the way that society likes to conflate genitals and gender identity to the mass of cultural performances we present to the world. This is also where a lot of people get confused because transgender individuals are often forced into situations where they have to exaggerate what they present to the world in order to be taken seriously by society, which is all a long intro to…
Gender performance: What we present to the world in terms of social and aesthetic behaviors we associate with one gender or another. A suit and a tie aren’t inherently male or even inherently masculine, but we associate that culturally so an individual in a suit and a tie will be assumed to be dressing masculinely and that trait will often be used as a short-hand by others in guessing their gender identity.
This is where the terms masculine and feminine come from and where gender roles and norms have the most sway. Makeup isn’t inherently feminine, but we deem it so, so an individual wearing it will be seen as feminine. And sadly, culturally, we also deem feminine things as inherently worse than masculine things and see it as a means to treat those who adopt them as less.
This often leads to feminist discussion surrounding how we perform these particular roles and adopt these gender performances regardless of personal preference out of fear of ostracization or worse. This is what breeds toxic masculinity as defined by often men adopting exaggerated sometimes violent ideas of masculinity that are internally and externally harmful out of fear of being deemed feminine and a “woman” by refusing. This is also what often leads trans individuals to adopt stereotypically masculine or feminine attire to be taken more seriously as their gender during transition.
However it is also the case that despite the pressure, there are performances that feel most right to us as human beings. A butch lesbian for instance isn’t just performing that role because they were told they should fit the guy role more, but because those things we’ve deemed masculine clothing styles and haircuts feel more right and more authentic.
This leads to one of our final categories.
Ideal Gender Performance: What roles we would naturally like to follow regarding what we’ve deemed masculine and feminine if we were absent considerable pressure to conform one way or another. A dude who dresses conservatively masculine may actually really like to wear makeup and a dress if it wasn’t associated with a particular gender identity or sexual orientation.
This is the garb that feels most right and it is gendered by society based on the connotations of masculinity and femininity we associate with various objects. And this is where you get that kind of breaking of norms these days as enforcement of gender performance relaxes where putting on a dress doesn’t make Eddy Izzard a woman or where Abby Wambach isn’t called a dude because she likes sports.
Ideal gender performance and gender identity will still be with us even in an imagined feminist utopia where there were no gender pressures to be one way versus another and where objects weren’t gendered. Because these are a lot more fixed and innate like sexuality. So you’ll still have individuals who identify as a gender and are most comfortable with that identity and who will have sexual orientations that fit in with that identity and they’ll still have modes of dress and hobbies that fit best for them even if those modes of dress are no longer gendered.
Where society gets confusing is that we conflate all of these and the prescribed roles and social pressure all as gender in a lot of discourse and conversation. And that gets into conflict with individuals with marginalized identities that don’t neatly fit the narrative (masculine trans women, non-binary individuals, androgynous individuals of all identities, and so on).
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Awesome. Thanks so much.
@Cerberus
Thanks for the answers! It was quite an interesting read. And thanks for the explanation about Intersex, I didn’t know these details.
But I’m very sorry, to me this misses my question:)
My question, I guess, is more on what defines male/female-ness when gender roles or genitalia or genetic make up does not come into play? As I’ve answered higher up, for example, my friend has a vagina, is straight, likes hiking, pants, and martials arts. She identify herself as “female”. Now, if she identified herself as “male”, but kept the rest intact, what does it mean? What has changed?
I mean, in some societies they have additional genders that correspond to gender roles assumed by people with not the right set of genitalia for this society and this role. I get it. In the modern, developped world, ideally today any role can be assumed by a person with any genitalia (let’s be ideal^^)
People are sexually attracted to other people, and have preferences regarding the genitalia of said people. I get it.
Transgenders possess a set of genitals that does not correspond to the set of genitals their brain thinks it should have. I get it.
Intersex possess a set of genitals that do not correspond to any of the standard of the specie, or a set of genitals that do not correspond to their genetic makeup. I get it.
Now, gender fluid people have no specifics about their gender role, their genitalia, their sexual attraction, or their genetic makeup. But they still feel like a combination of male and female not corresponding to what could be expected at first glance. I don’t get it. What does it mean?
Maybe it’s a problem of definition.
For me, male = one present the whole genetic/hormonal profile to have a penis + penis, female = one present the whole genetic/hormonal profile to have a vagina + vagina, intersex = one present a combination of both profiles either internally or externally.
Now, with those definitions what does “feeling” male when you’re female and do not want to change your genitalia would entail? Should I change definitions? But they’re descriptive! Replacing them with “feels male/female/a mix” would make them circular and meaningless!
At the moment, for me, it’s a bit like someone telling me he “feels to be a duck”. I ask if he has a beak, feathers, or palms: no. I ask if he’s planning to get them, to fit his inside feelings: no. I ask if he eats bread and eye lustingly other ducks: it’s of no relevance (and I agree!). So on what should I base the appreciation that he’s a duck? Should I redefine duck-ness to add “feeling to be a duck”?
To mention, I really think that being gender-fluid is widely different from thinking oneself a duck. I just want to understand what is the difference exactly. Because I don’t get it.
To finish, I’m not the type to go and impose my judgment on others when they’re not bothering me. The happiness of others regards others, as long as they find happiness I’m happy. I just want to understand.
I’m not sure “the definition becomes circular” is a valid argument when dealing with something like the human brain. Even if it is kind of circular, the concept of gender seems like it’s halfway between being simply a state of mind associated with particular physical characteristics and something completely separate. I’m pretty sure that, even if it does seem circular to you, it’s probably best if you change your definition.
Gender Identity.
Which is a real thing that is innate and unchangeable. Just because it is in the brain doesn’t make it less “real” or less “biological” just as one can’t just change their sexual orientation or stop having a mental condition such as depression.
Going, gosh wouldn’t it be fun to be a duck or a delusion that can be shaken with intense therapy like say body dysmorphia don’t really rise to the level of what we’ve seen things like gender and sexual orientation occupy in the brain.
Nor the sheer level of torment that dysphoria can represent in lived experience (I couldn’t actually look in the mirror or look at myself bathing until I started actively finding a model of transition that worked for me).
Well, that’s not it at all. It’s about what gender the brain is.
The importance and critical nature of genitals are a quaint social idea that we see any time a cis individual has a traumatic injury to their overall hip area. If a cis dude had a traumatic injury resulting in the loss of his penis and balls, would he cease being a dude? Would he suddenly become agender and adopt an agender gender identity?
No. Of course not. We can see this argument as being specious.
And that’s because we realize that there is another component to our gender that overrides that. This is why a transgender person doesn’t need surgery to be the gender that they are. A trans woman does not forego being a woman nor a trans man forego being a man because they haven’t had a particular flavor of surgery (of which there are many that can be seen as Sex Realignment Surgeries).
That component is that clump that sits in your brain and based on a lot of people’s life experiences settles into its default operating mode whether that is cis or trans very very early in life close to the exact moment where we are mentally capable of processing the concept of gender.
And I think that is the piece you are missing. A trans person isn’t going, oh me my, surgery is the only thing that will make me complete. A trans person has that innate part of their brain that in a cis person may match what the driver’s license or genitalia configuration say not matching with what everyone is displacing on them.
And that’s what often precedes transition efforts, because other people are terrible at going, yup, you know what is going on in your head best unless they can see “proof”. So a trans person is rarely taken seriously unless they make a dramatic change to their aesthetics matching gender stereotypes in the same way as someone’s sexuality is treated as a joke unless they conform to what people imagine that means (I’ve encountered a fuck ton of gay guys and lesbians who were dismissed even if they were dating people of the same gender simply because they didn’t “look” like stereotypical ideas of gay men and lesbians).
And this is an important basis to re-evaluate and get right, because it’s the source of a lot of your confusion.
But they do. It just shifts, sometimes dramatically, sometimes quickly. Some days they may feel really really male and it’s important to their mental health, well-being, and self-esteem to be treated as such. Others they may feel really, really female and so recognizing and respecting that becomes important.
This has fuck all to do with their genital state (individuals of all potential genitalia configurations can be genderfluid), ideal gender performance (whether they are feeling feminine or masculine (it’s totally a thing to feel like a feminine dude or a masculine woman, even when you are trans)), or sexuality (some genderfluid people have a consistent category of person they are attracted to though what that means can shift day to day or moment to moment*, others don’t or find they feel like gay men one day but lesbian women another).
*It’s worth noting here a story about a date an ex of mine went on with a genderfluid individual and how there was a bit of fooling around where the genderfluid person had a switch in the middle of the fooling around and how dramatically different their whole everything shifted with that to go from what was initially a very straight style affair into a deeply lesbian experience.
It does sometimes have things to do with gender performance because again, society doesn’t take people seriously on their experiences unless they can see them, so if a genderfluid individual wants to be taken seriously, they sometimes have to follow it up with dramatic visual cues, which is shitty, but there we go on how gender roles fuck us all, both cis and trans both.
And it does have something to do with genetic makeup, because the brain is not a mass of pure energy wholly disconnected from our genes. Our brain is instead built from our genes and defined by our gene expressions with influence from environmental and social factors affecting said gene expression along the way.
That’s another important thing to note. That our brain is just as biological as our genitals and that neither necessarily have anything to do with the sex chromosomes.
Your gender identity would be that of a guy.
Surgery does not make one a guy, that is why men do not lose their maleness if they need to remove cancer in their testicles or penis. Gender performance does not make you a guy. We don’t assume that Twisted Sister was actually an all-girl band while on stage simply because they are wearing bright colors and stockings.
Instead we implicitly understand that there is another more inherent thing that makes one a dude.
So why should the rules be different if one is trans.
And more importantly, please allow me to turn the question back to you. Why does it matter to your ability to treat a man who says they are a man like a man what their genitals look like? What their gender performance looks like? Why should a person who is relating who they are and asking to be afforded the treatment commiserate with have to “prove” their gender to you with dramatic action? Why does the answer to this change when the individual is trans versus when they are cis?
Cause that’s the stumbling block I feel you are running into and its an easy stumbling block to hit because transgender issues are often erased in society and a lot of transphobic myths proliferate.
Surgery does not define us. Surgery is not a universal experience any more than hormones or adoptive dress. Actually, rather less. And our genitalia state can resolve into something rather less important so long as we are being treated in conjunction with our gender. I know plenty of trans individuals that just say fuck it and go without because being treated with the right pronouns and having people accept them for how they are is all they really needed to shut up the painful hum of dysphoria.
You associate an experience that has very little to do with genitalia to being all about genitalia. Because it’s “descriptive”. This was enough for you to discount the hypothetical man in your previous example.
If I was you, I would examine this moment that had you write this, because I think it is central to what is getting in your way of understanding.
It’s clearly the internal thing that is most compelling to you, far beyond the gender identity of an individual and what they are telling you they’re experiencing.
Whatever is making you override that because genitals feel important to you is critical to growing to understand this. And I believe you can because you are taking the important first step of asking questions in the first place.
How so?
Like, let’s take it away from gender identity and keep it really simple. If an individual said “I feel sad”, would you feel compelled to grill them? Would you go, no, you are in a party, people in parties don’t feel sad or “I don’t know, you look happy, you must be lying about your experience” or “if I take you at your word, then the only useful definition of sad I have is that you feel sad and that’s circular”.
Probably not and that’s because that feels ridiculous. An individual who feels sad is the best judge of what is going on in their brain and their emotional state.
And that’s just for an emotion. If we took something far more critical to one’s self like sexual orientation, this would be even more insensitive? “Wait, we should just follow whether or not someone “feels” gay to believe they are gay, wouldn’t that be circular, I’m going to continue assuming you are straight.” That would be really douchey and it is no less so with gender.
How you define gender is by how they define it because anyone actually taking about their own gender out loud given the level of shit that trans people get has definitely thought a fuck ton more about it than you.
So, if you want to know what that means and how you should interact regardless of other clues, you should just…
Ask.
Just ask them. Ask them what their preferred pronouns are and then practice them and if that shifts in the future, you follow what they say then. If they say that being genderfluid or genderqueer or trans means X to them, you should believe them and go, fair enough. We do it all the time every time an individual asks to go by their middle name or prefers a nickname or wants you to still view them as one of the guys even though they recently came out.
Indeed, which is why I’m not going to tackle that question under its own terms. Because yes, as you surmise, it is offensive in the same way as if you went “oh, someone said they were depressed, isn’t that the same as being sad or someone saying they’re a donkey, how do I believe them on this unless they show me their work”.
Gender identity is not a “feeling”. Is not some fleeting spot of fancy. It is who we are.
To be at all applicable to your situations, the duckman would have to feel physical and emotional pain being treated as a human, would be suffering to be considered a human and would be massively triggered dysphoric and suicidal to have everyone dismiss their duckness asking for fucking bread pics and whether their new wings have grown in yet.
And that situation doesn’t exist, because it’s a bad analogy. Gender is not a fluke. It is what we are. And what we are is not our genitals.
And I’m not saying that because I’m trans and trying to deflect. I’m saying that because I’m trans and spent way too long of my life trying to be cis. Trying to fit in and be what everyone expected me to be. To lean on my masculinity to try and force myself to better fit this mold that literally everyone I had encountered up to that point was what was supposed to fit for me.
If gender was mutable. If gender was an idea or a delusion, it wouldn’t be able to survive that. But it isn’t. And try as I may have, I wasn’t a guy, even though others could point to my genital configuration or my driver’s license to argue as such.
There is no duckman analogy that can capture and encapsulate that experience.
Hopefully all this helps and answers your questions and I strongly encourage you to take a second pass through my first pass again after genuinely examining what it is to you that makes you want to assume that genitalia equals gender.
Because that seems to be where you are getting stuck and there’s no shame in that. It’s a place a lot of cis people get stuck, because society is very good at telling us that our genitals are the only thing that define our gender and it is very easy to believe that when you don’t have an innate, inherent part of your brain saying no.**
**Which isn’t to say that cis people don’t have that part of their brain. It’s just that it’s easier to not pay attention. The genital shortcut still works and society still aligns itself naturally with their gender identity. It’s like how it’s easy for a white man to ignore the impact of racism or a man to ignore the impact of sexism. Because you don’t have to see it to get along with your day.
Ugh, I need to stop using blockquotes here. It fucks with the formatting too much.
Very late to the game here but a great little visual guide can be found if you search “genderbread person”
Even later to the game here, but is there a place I could link to your explanations, Cerebus? Or could I republish them elsewhere and credit you both (asker and answerer) in the manner of your choosing?
These explanations are exceedingly well-put, and in my family, I have many babyboomers who are supportive and curious about my genderqueer cousin. Said babyboomers are right about where the questioner is in every way. They are not assholes and they know how to behave properly externally, and also they’d like to understand better internally. I think they’d get a lot out of this conversation!
Sure! Hope it helps.
Maybe it would be better explained as a cricket match of relationship scoring.
“A fine edge through slips for a single.”
“A late cut behind square leg for a boundary.”
“Caught out by the third man!”
And something about being fumbled in gully.
FUCK
So… Becky took after her mother? Or she’s adopted. It has to be one of the two.
The “toe-like asshole bigot” gene is recessive.
Well, I would argue that, as a girl, Becky is less likely to inherit obvious physical features from her father. Red hair is ultra-recessive too, so it is quite possible that Becky inherited that from her grandparents on both sides.
You know it is possible (if unlikely) that we’re all doing Becky’s dad a serious disservice. What if losing track of his daughter for days has made him rethink his feelings a bit? It isn’t impossible that his first reaction upon seeing Becky will be to burst into tears, hug her and thank God that she’s safe.
However, I think it’s more likely that he’s either going to disown her or tell her that the college fund is hers to do with as she wishes but not to ever expect a single extra cent or acknowledgement from him ever again.
He pulled her out of college and it was heavily implied he was going to send her to conversion therapy.
He’s on Blaine’s level at this point.
I think the argument was more “what if he steps back from that level” but I have to agree I don’t find it at all likely 🙁
Gahhh last panel makes me glad I read comics out of order today. This one has been last (of dailies) for awhile, its getting bumped somewhere in the middle to cushion futures traumas!
We’ll have to wait and see.
Oh god…Dina is going to accidentally out Beckys whereabouts to her dad, right?
I mean, she doesn’t know Becky ran from him, and she’s even very open about telling people she kissed her yesterday. I predict the remainder of Dinas day will be Dina doing her best to fix the situation she accidentally caused…
Next strip: Ruth borrows Billie’s car and rams him into a truck.
Oh no : (
GODAMMIT, ROSS!!!
…….WHY IS THIS THE PAGE WHERE I CAUGHT UP?
This could get bad really really bad.
This whole thing could very easily get hugely complicated. If Becky refuses to go with her father and claims that she is in peril from him, then, irrespective of her status vis the college, the Administrators would be obliged to hand the matter over to the police (possibly even the Feds if state borders have been crossed).
My guess is that he’ll decide that he’d prefer Becky with someone he knows and trusts (Joyce) than her missing and on the run whilst doing who knows what to support herself. He’ll transfer her to Indiana State but will sternly instruct Joyce that she must have intensive moral sermonising sessions with her at least daily to ‘cure’ her of her ‘deviancy’ and that he’ll hold her personally responsible for the outcome.
This means that we will get occasional calls to Joyce from Ross asking for status reports, the practical upshot of which will be that Joyce will become a skilled and plausible liar. When graduation comes, it is possible that Joyce may never be able to go back to her home church because Ross will have her cast out for being party to his daughter’s behaviour.
Becky is 18. If she refuses to go with her father and claims that she is in peril from him, then the only involvement the authorities have would be something like a restraining order.
He can legally cut off any funding and choose not to support her any further, but he can’t legally take her away. That’s kidnapping.
The consequences of that involvement might also get Becky kicked out of the dorm, but that’s not a police matter.
I admire your optimism.
However personal experiences suggest that what will happen is that he will try to force her to heel to his expectations and follow through with getting fixed and will use every tool in an arsenal of emotional abuse, potential physical abuse (albeit maybe only limited to physically dragging her away), and so on.
With individuals like this, being “right” matters a hell of a lot more than the happiness of the child (if the happiness of the child was something you cared more about than your own fantasies of happy families, then you wouldn’t try to “fix” them in the first place).
And there’s the added baggage that as his particular strain of Christian he literally sees it as the only way to save her soul from literal demonic infection. And what possible action no matter how monstrous, abusive, and demonstrably bad for the short-term mental and physical health of the child could be too much to save one from literal eternity of suffering and misery?
So yeah, I’m seeing warrior from God to “save” his daughter as being the WAY more likely scenario here.
It feels as though an entire fandom cried out in joy and were suddenly silenced.
Becky’s Dad: “Something-something corruption of the mind. Something-something mother loves you. Something-something I’ll take you home.”
Becky: “I’m not coming with you.”
Becky’s Dad: “Something-something corruption of the soul. Something-something sodomite.”
Dina: “The universe is billions of years old.”
Becky’s Dad: *head explodes*
Becky: “Well. This is suddenly more of a mess…”
+1
“Evilutionist”. heheheheehe 😀
In a sick twist of the knife, he may ask Dina and, as she doesn’t know, Dina may be the very person to lead the dad to Becky’s room.
If he does ask Dina, we can only hope she remembers what happened when she let Amber’s dad into their room, and think twice about it. Dina may have huge problems picking up on social clues, but she does learn from past experience.
(But if the dramatic needs of plot override that… Noooooooooo!)
He won’t need to. Joyce is right there, I’m sure he’s familiar with her daughters best friend.
My question was how he figured out where becky was.
His
I meant his
Well, Joyce is terrible at lying to her parents, even on the phone ; and Beckydad had time to try a lot of other places before coming here too.
I’m sure that he’s been trying other places where he thought that she would be hiding. I suspect that it has taken him this long to try Joyce because he doesn’t know Joyce (or at least Joyce as she is now) well enough. He was expecting her to have called him or her parents if Becky had turned up more-or-less immediately; he isn’t expecting that Joyce might be on Becky’s side and that could lead to fireworks when he realises it.
*uncontrollable screaming*
There could be hope. “Aggressive homophobe walks into an LGBT college support meeting?” Could end up surrounded by a bunch of fit kids who aren’t particularly afraid of him / have some righteous anger issues of their own?
I am imagining ToeDad in the Chris Pratt Raptor Pose.
At the very least, a few wrong words from toedad would immediately alert the very people who are most likely to be willing and able to help Becky because they know more than anyone on the campus what kind of peril she is in.
Ross: mumble-mumble-correction camp-muble.
Bryan: Um… Do anyone here know a “Becky”, she might need our help… um, Jim? Joyce is kinda crying here, like, a lot, and it’s getting awkward… Jim? Jiiiiiiim? This Becky definitely needs our help. Distract toe-man out there.
Dina: I’m aware of her present location and will take you there. I will then depart to change to my raptor costume because of reasons.
Danny: *Activates DS chat function* OK, I’m definitely Jimmy Olsen at this point…
Madly ‘Out There’ Possibility
Different universe but Joyce is still an Abductee. She has a nervous breakdown-level panic attack and the stress triggers her alien DNA-created powers, causing her to telekinetically nail Ross into a wall. Sunnydale Syndrome follows with everyone making elaborate excuses for it being some kind of weird coincidence.
Aww… this story line has been great. Dina is so cute!
(Looks at last panel…)
Well, damn. Damn you, Willis! Man, the only way this could get worse is if another asshole dad shows up!
(Looks at own Gravatar…)
Aw, shit…
Maybe amazi girl can show up.
She has good track record beating the shit out of asshole dads
Look at this fat bastard.
We just wanted a happy Dina story, man.
We should have asked for a happy Becky story while we were at it.
Like fools we thought they were one and the same. Foooools! (/end Galasso)
As long as it doesn’t end with Dina exploding at the end it’s still the happiest story Dina has.
At least she came back from that!
To die in the Soggy invasion.
Oh, mustache, Camo pants, white shirt.
Yea he’s probably not an old fashioned militaristic father..
Oh no
Oh no no no
Noooooooooooo
Okay, so Dina and Joyce have approximately the same knowledge of baseball…
I was thinking for a moment that he was there just to ask Joyce, who’d try her very best to simply lie. But then I noticed that he has a photograph (or something very much like it) in his hands, so he’s probably going to go around and ask everyone if they’ve seen the girl in the photo over the last few days.
Yeah, but Becky doesn’t look like that picture anymore. Most people did not meet her until after the haircut.
Becky’s dad looks like an inbred fundie hick.
That man is his own father.
That is one atypically square man.
But he’s there so…. maybe it won’t go as horribly wrong as it most likely will?
*Sees the guy in the last panel* Who’s that?
*Clicks the tag* OHHHHHH
shitty parents part 2
(Sees third panel) Huzzah! Dina’s internal monologue has returned!
(Sees last panel) Nopenopenopenopenopenopenope.
Y’know, Dina’s monologues about bases is an hilarious comeback at those expecting a slipshine in yesterday’s comments.
It’s especially savory when you realize it was actually written/predicted THREE MONTHS ago XD
Y’know, it is my opinion that panel 4 is another tick in the ‘asexual’ box. She literally has no idea that a romantic entanglement could lead to anything except cuddling and doing similar friendly-loving things.
It’s possible ; tho, well, it may be just that until yesterday, she never had any interest in learning about it.
Of course she knows, all this indicates is that she’s not ready to consider moving to that stage yet.
I don’t know why people are assuming Dina’s going to go from one annoyed kiss to lady-sex with someone she just met.
The point is that she doesn’t even seem to be hypothetically aware of sex as a component in a romantic relationship.
Yup, definitely one for the ol’ ace-canon box, at least in my head. Mainly because I remember that stage of “hmm, I’m not opposed to sex and could be interested in it, ooh a relationship, this is where I… uh… hmm… I’m going to need some guidance from them because my natural inclinations is kisses and cuddles.”
Oh boy, this is bad. This is very bad. He has a photo in his hand, which he will presumably be showing to people, asking if anyone has seen her.
Also, I’m not normally shallow like this, but I feel compelled to point out that Becky’s father in *supremely* unattractive. *Shudder*
Well that didn’t last too fuckin’ long.
I love this comic – not just “Evilution” but the entire run! And I really like Dina but she seems to drop out of character too often. Like Peggy Hill, Dina does not use contractions – her grammar is always perfect. So why did she drop out in the 1st panel by saying “Becky and I kissing”? The Dina we’ve come to know and love would never make such a mistake.
I understand the difficulty of writing dialog with such a specific style and I luvs ya for it!
JS…
ohhhhhhhhhh, Becky’s dad.
So fitting avatar to your line. xD
Damn he looks like Hulk’s Little Brother. “ME NOT LIKE WEIRD! DESTROY!” “NO WEIRDNESS LIKE… THINKING!”
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d54573fc30c0ad135bcc513be7b165a0/tumblr_nnxv6ml2471qkinreo1_1280.png
I’m thinking that this preview picture is something coming in this current sub-arc. Maybe Becky’s dad tells Joyce that he’s very disappointed in her hiding Becky (“Conniving in her sin” is probably how he’ll put it), that he’ll be informing her parents of what she’s done and insisting that they discipline her.
I’m not so sure. the Joyce freak-out usually happens when she’s faced with a completely commonplace reality that she can’t accept (ie: Dorothy is an atheist, girls can be attracted to girls).
I’m guessing Becky tells her she doesn’t think the world is only 6000 years old anymore.
I’m with Spencer. That preview panel is too comically exaggerated for a situation as grave as a confrontation between Becky and/or Joyce and Mr. MacIntyre(sp?).
Okay, how about that it’s when Danny tells Joyce that he’s attracted to Ethan; Joyce doesn’t know whether to be morally scandalised or horribly jealous of a ‘rival’.
Joyce and Ethan have broken up at Joyce’s insistence.
Besides, Joyce and Danny have interacted maybe three times. Why would he tell her that?
Regarding Joyce and Ethan…? It’s my feeling that it’s more complex than that. The time she broke down and needed to spend a night cuddling him makes me think that this may be turning into an unrequited situation. Joyce knows that breaking up with Ethan is the right thing to do. Her emotions might not be co-operating.
As for Danny, it’s a questioning meeting, remember? Joyce, genuinely interested mostly so that she can understand Ethan and Becky better, politely asks him what his story is. Danny, feeling safe to talk to a mostly-stranger without preconceptions tells her.
I don’t think so. Even when she snuck into his room to hold him, she realized that there relationship was going nowhere, and she doubted that Ethan could ever love her as a “future wife.” I think she stills care about him even beyond the reflexive “I have been completely awful to him and I have to make it right” and is taking great effort to fix the damage she has contributed to, but I think she’s over him as a romantic partner.
I can’t see Danny being that open about his sexuality to Joyce, since he had to work himself up to talk to Joe and Dorothy (two of his oldest friends) and with Ethan there was lots of running in circles and panicking before he was able to relax and say “I still like girls but maybe there’s something more.”
Considering Joyce has been encouraging Ethan to be openly gay finding out a guy is into him will likely activate her shipping powers. Unless she remembers about him being with Amber, Joyce is the second lest likely person to encourage cheating after Danny himself.
Joyce doesn’t know Amazi Girl is Amber. Danny was introduced to her as Amber’s friend. (Ethan made a hasty correction in that strip but I don’t think Joyce caught it).
Of course there’s a lot I disagree about with the original post. Joyce might still harbor some unrequited feelings for Ethan, but she broke up with him, and has been trying her best to be supportive him and make him feel more comfortable with his sexuality. She’s not scandalized by homosexuality like she was back when Billie told her “Everyone tries it eventually.” Second, there’s no reason for Danny to tell her how he feels. He barely knows her. (I think he might know her as Ethan’s ex? I have a feeling Ethan referred to her as his ex before the party yesterday).
UGH, oh man. Dad’s here. I hope nothing too bad happens to Becky. Or if it does, I hope Dina pounces and devours Becky’s dad’s heart. It’s a shame she’s dressed as an herbivore.
Everyone’s favorite character, Danny, has already set the bar for “worst possible handling of meeting my significant other’s abusive parent(s)” in the story.
Dina, all you have to do to come out ahead here is NOT BE DAN. Unfortunately, the circumstances leading up to an encounter with Becky’s father bear a some notable similarities to Danny first meeting Blaine.
The difference is, Becky’s dad is made of pure faith and Dina is made of pure logic. Who will win in this test of wills?!
That can’t be Becky’s dad – he looks like he belongs in a Mario Kart game! She’d have to take after her mom 100%. Maybe Willis throws a surprise down the road and we discover he’s not her biological father – Carrot Top is! Or one of the Weasley’s from Harry Potter?
Rachel Summers. It will become even more obvious when she grows a rat tail and starts using her telekinetic powers to clean her room.
“She” of course being Becky.
He just finished swallowing his clone.
…How did he get inside?
I… imagine that he walked through the door. I haven’t seen any indication of door security in the hall of residence, so it wouldn’t be difficult so long as he didn’t attract the attention of campus police by being overtly threatening.
After Blaine, Ross’s soon-to-happen anti-social demonstration may lead to security being tightened with locks on the exterior doors to the halls.
Or it’s like a trap – they let the buttholes inside where Ruth can eat them.
Once again, my avatar speaks for myself and a good majority of the comments section. Also, to Firstie who’s birthday it is today, Happy Birthday, sorry today is the lit fuse of what is certain to be an explosive drama bomb. Mine is the 17th…which is also the first day of school for me (curse you Florida!) so we’ll see how this goes. ^-^
I actually gasped out loud. Well played. Lets hope he doesn’t find Becky!
NO! IT’S TOO SOON!
Anybody care to lay odds that a storyline including a controlling and hostile father will somehow involve Amazi-Girl?
Pretty good.
Personally, I hope that Amazi-Girl does not get involved except if Ross does something monumentally stupid and tries to kidnap Becky at night at some point.
I’d like for him to try to throw his authority around, fail (as there’s no-one in the room who respects said authority) and, when he tries to guilt Joyce into supporting his decisions, get shocked out of his wits by Joyce telling him to ‘poop off’ (in her own words). That’s when there is the long, abusive rant directed at Joyce and Becky that reduces both to tears.
He might also get physical, which could trigger a brawl if he hits Joyce or Becky in front of the others.
I can see the panel composition when Joyce tells him to poop off. It will be suitably epic.
Aw shit son
Looking at Becky’s Dad, his legs seem to start at the knees. That would mean…
HE HAS NO FEMURS.
Is he… Ruth-proof?
AND HE HAS NO NECK!! Ruth will be powerless against him!
BRING THE WILD DOGS!!!
Don’t be mean to dogs. Use hogs. Hogs apparently like the taste of their own species’ flesh.
Back in my day, 3rd base was under the clothes stuff, but not quite sex.
Mary’s icon saying that just… seems odd.
Nah, Mary’s a major hypocrite.
I’m bothered by the man in the last panel. Should I be? Btw, this stuff is way better than the dorm party.
It’s Becky’s father. He pulled her out of college when he found out she was lesbian and threatened to have her “fixed” before she ran away.
Oh shit, it’s the Crimson Chin!
Damn you Willis!
Fuck. Double Fuck. Fuckity fuck. FUCK. fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck and balls.
Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck FUCK THAT BUTTHOLE!!!!
OK, my first thought upon seeing his name was, “So, if Dina marries Becky, her name will be Dina Ross?”
But that can’t be right…
No, Dina McIntyre. Ross is her dad’s first name.
And anyway, I suspect that if Dina and Becky marry, Becky will not particularly want reminders of her family situation. If anything, Becky will likely change her name.
How did he get past security, Becky isn’t even enrolled here.
.
.
Wait, I know. He is here for the questioning sexuality meeting.
ha ha ha ha security
How do we know that’s Becky’s dad? I don’t remember him being shown ever before. Was he and I missed it?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/fix/
Thanks! Now other questions remain:
1) Will he find Becky even though Joyce likely won’t help him?
2) Will Becky escape in time?
3) Will he tell Joyce’s parents about the situation and get her in trouble?
4) Why is he wearing pajama pants? (Or is that supposed to be Camo?)
Depressing thought. We see Becky’s dad here. Joyce’s parents not believing her “all’s okay” phone call may have been the trigger for him coming here…
What if the Browns are also floating around trying to find out why they’re daughter would commit such a major sin as lie to them?
… while she’s at the Questioning meeting, holding a giant stack of resources for queer students?
I’m seeing parallels with this strip: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/questioning/
Yeah, but there is a hope spot in there. When Ross (FUCK YOU) was confronted by the fact that his daughter lived a life undeniably at odds with their fundie norms he dragged her from school, tried to get her to a camp and is obviously prepared to go to great lengths to control her.
I’m not so sure that Joyce parent’s will be as unyielding if it really comes down to the choice of accepting Joyce or lose her. After all, they raised a daughter who isn’t.
I’m not so sure that they will be accepting though. They grudgingly accept Joyce’s right to associate with an atheist after Joyce insists that there is a biblical backing to her actions. (And even then it looks like her mom is still against it).
FUCKITY-FUCK FUCK!
FUCK
After looking through the comments, I feel the need to address a few points that have been brought up.
FUCKITY-FUCK FUCK FUCK!
A FUCKTON OF FUCKING FUCK!
Also, FUCK!
Hmmmm. I kinda agree, but I feel the need to clarify on one point:
FUCK!
FUCK, FUCK, FUCK.
FUCK!
Hmm, one more unreasonable, physically aggressive obsessively controlling dad to be fought off by our heroic teenage herd? Or will there be a twist somewhere in that plot? I’m thinking twist.
Dammit Willis! Stop making me love Dina! It’s unhealthy to like a fictional character this much!
Tell me about it. I’m the same way about Joyce herself.
Truthfully, though, this is a sign of good writing. When an author can create something out of thin air and get his readers (or her readers, as in the case of J.K. Rowling) to invest so much emotional energy into them, that writer has a rare talent.
Okay, I can feel the set up here to be able to being AG into this. Nothing a little MURDER cant handle. Or you know the fact that Becky is a legal adult.
Well, one possibility is that his daughter being missing for a few nights after an argument has terrified Ross as much as it should a decent parent and he’s decided that even if he still doesn’t approve of the gay, it’s not worth losing his daughter over and he’s here to try to not be an asshole. To talk to Becky and help her figure out a real plan, even if it’s still not possible for her to live in the same house as him and it takes him a while to fully accept her.
… Look, it’d be nice, wouldn’t it?
GREAT SCOTT that was quick.
(I can’t believe nobody said this yet, but)
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO DINA!
Wow… we missed that one? Just goes to show how much of a distraction toe-turd can be.
also this comic deserves so many top level comments, but that last panel. I cannot talk about any of the cute shippy thoughts I was having, or even go on a dissertation about Dina’s gray-ace-spectrumness, because toedad has ruined everything. D:
That’s what he does.
Ugh, Becky’s asshole dad.
Maybe we could put him in a cage with Amber’s Dad and have them pummel each other…
The first time I read this, I was like, “Hm.”
Oh, how I long for the days of my innocence, when still believed that life could but good for everyone.