Perhaps something involving sharks with lasers on their heads and/or watching both seasons of Beast Machines back to back.
And I feel bad for Danny. Trying to stay with the girl he loves isn’t a bad thing and she just yanks his heart out, stomps on it and walks off without taking more than two seconds to explain anything.
Way to go girl; ruin his entire life. What do you care?
Oh come on. Ruin his entire life? Puh-leeeeeze. He’s a college freshmen, no older than 18. Of course *he* doesn’t have a sense of perspective right now, but a high school romance isn’t nearly that important. Unless he’s a brainless drama-queen, Danny will get over it and move on.
And I’ll grant you that Dorothy could have been more tactful, but seriously, now. Danny just dismissed her most important life dream as, to use Dorothy’s metaphor, just a child’s game that she would grow out of. Don’t try to pretend that this wasn’t major insensitivity on Danny’s part. Dorothy had every right and reason to be furious about that.
If Danny really did care about her, then he should have known how important her dream was to her. And he should have supported her rather than ignore her feelings while building up his own dream life. The fact that he clearly didn’t know how important Dorothy’s dream was to her, the fact that he could so easily and blithely dismiss it the way he did, it all goes to show that he didn’t really care. Not really.
Ruin his entire life? That seems a bit harsh. It’s a high school romance. He’s going to be mopey and emo for a while, but it’s not like this is the only thing that can and will ever define him.
Unless of course he’s that pathetic of a human being. Then, yeah, his life is over.
And to be fair, would Danny have even listened to her if she tried to explain things to him? I mean, its clear that she has been questioning his actions for months now (ever since he decided to follow her to a specific college, despite her telling him constantly that she won’t be remaining there for more than a year or so), and he constantly brushes her concerns and comments aside as unimportant. He tries to convince her to stay in his ideal “safe zone”, forgo her dreams, and seems to feel their romance will be enough to fulfill her.
I’m pretty sure if she tried to explain things to him again, he’s just keep going on and on about “true love” and “being together forever” ignoring the point she was trying to make.
Dorothy’s approach is hardly ideal for anyone in regards to a break up, but I somehow doubt that anything but a cold, harsh smack to reality would have worked on Danny.
Well, Danny has basically told her that he doesn’t really care about her. He values the relationship; he doesn’t really seem to value Dorothy. If he did, he wouldn’t have told her that maybe her aspirations were just a phase she was going through.
Dorothy hasn’t ruined Danny’s entire life by breaking up with him. Putting her dreams on hold so they could be together, though? That could have messed her life up pretty Even if Dorothy’s hopes do turn out to be unrealistic, they’re still important to her – and she’s never going to know if they are or they aren’t if she doesn’t even try to achieve them.
It sounds to me like Danny’s just told her he doesn’t really want her to try. And that, to my eyes at least, is a bad thing.
Sorry. It’ s just the way she did it simply pisses me off and makes me want to shake her till her teeth fall out.
I don’t know why; just is.
And yea, BOTH seasons of Beast Machines-with every Nightscream episode repeated twice! Then maybe he’ll try to be an actual friend instead of a horn-dog on the make for his next notch.
Possibly because, and I may be jumping at shadows, here, Dorothy’s not a nice person. From what we’ve seen of her character so far, she seems to be convinced of her own sterling destiny. She doesn’t speak of aspirations, she speaks of eventualities. “Yale-bound”, she calls herself.
Let’s see her say that after the realities of college set in, hm?
And I’m not saying that Danny is anywhere near aware enough to make that connection. He was just afraid of losing her and equally convinced that their future was destiny. I don’t, however, see that he told her her dreams weren’t important. He dared to bring up the possibility that she might change her mind and she exploded. He hit upon her major insecurity: that she didn’t get into Yale at first because she’s simply not good enough, and might never be.
Insensitive of him? Maybe. Probably, in fact, but with the way she’s been parading herself around as the next darling child of academia, assured of her own success (in the long run), she needed to be taken down a peg anyway, and they’re both probably better off without each other (him licking her boots and her providing him that consistency from high school).
Which is exactly what I said. I noted, however, that I don’t think she’s just upset about him thinking it’s a phase or, rather, that her annoyance with that comes from the fear that she won’t succeed, which she seems to be keeping bottled up and denying.
I read your post, and all I can see is someone trying to tear Dorothy down. Like this line, for example:
[“She doesn’t speak of aspirations, she speaks of eventualities.”]
There’s no difference between those two, provided you work toward what you aspire. She *can* get into Yale if she puts in the effort.
And if Danny really did care about her, if he really *knew* her, then he would have known how important that dream was to her. And he would have *supported* her and encouraged her, rather than blithely declare that she would just give up some day. You *never* tell people you care about that they should give up on their dreams, you damn well stand by them and tell them that they are capable of doing whatever they want with their lives.
Of course, we ladies are used to having our dreams trampled on by people telling us that we should just get married and be the loving housewife.
No. Aspirations are fine. They drive one to work hard toward them. Dorothy does not aspire to go to Yale, she feels that it’s her right to attend it. That is a very strong distinction. Read the cast page. Her life, right now, consists of a bunch of very powerful “ifs”, getting the right grades being chief among them.
That sure seems to indicate that she didn’t have the grades, or get the scholarships, before now, doesn’t it? If she hasn’t applied herself in the past, is that really going to change now because she says so? And if she has, and still didn’t manage the grades, is that going to change? And if Danny has seen her struggle through that, is it a terrible thing to raise the possibility that maybe the university she’s already at isn’t so bad and, worse comes to worst, she’s at least in college?
Well, yeah. Because he wasn’t saying it for those reasons. He was saying it for more selfish ones, because he wants her to stay with him, but, again, that just means there’s something they need to talk about, not have her overly defensive self dump him and storm off. And, yes, it’s being overly defensive, betraying her own insecurities.
So that’s not so much “should give up” as “might give up” and, like it or not, no amount of effort can work some miracles.
I think you might be splitting hairs. Dorothy aspires to go to Yale. And he motivates herself by saying “I WILL go to Yale”. She might be setting herself up to fail, but she might not be too. I’ve known people like her who say “I’m going to do something” and they do it, because they put the work into it.
It seems like you’re automatically expecting her to fail.
She might not have applied herself for it yet, because she didn’t feel she was ready at that time. Or maybe the school didn’t accept her the first time she applied. Just because it didn’t work out before, doesn’t mean it can’t work out later. A lot of kids do what Dorothy is doing, and they succeed.
Dorothy has been trying to talk to Danny about this for ages. So has his best friend Joe. Danny has refused to listen to either of them, because of the fact he doesn’t want his comfortable world to change.
It seems Dorothy didn’t dump Danny because she was overly defensive like you claim. It seems like something she’s been wanting to do for ages. Hell, she just talked to her RA about it. What Danny said to her however, provoked her to cut right to the chase rather than draw it out, because she knew Danny wouldn’t listen to her, just as he hasn’t been listening to her since the start.
This isn’t about her insecurities. Its about being a relationship with a guy who’s just not right for her, because he doesn’t fully understand what she wants.
Danny’s “might give up” comment confirmed for Dorothy that he doesn’t understand how important this is to her. He thinks its something that can be easily interchangeable with something else. She doesn’t want that.
Although, I meant to also add that Joe’s attempt at talking to Danny about his relationship with Dorothy involved him asking if he could add her to his “DO” list once she broke up with him that night, but still… considering this is Joe, that’s the closest thing you can get in terms of a “Dude, you’re relationship with her is doomed” from him. Which in itself is another big warning sign, I’d say.
sreiches: Absolutely none of that changes the fact that your anger against Dorothy comes across like this:
‘How dare this…this *KID*’ (change ‘KID’ to ‘GIRL’ if you’re really being as sexist as you sound) ‘have dreams above her station!? Well, reality will teach her a lesson soon for getting too big for her britches!’
So yeah, it sure looks to me that you’re getting angry with her for daring to dream big dreams. Apparently, you think she should settle for what Danny had planned for her, whether she liked it or not. That is arrogant, insulting, and something we ladies are all too familiar with.
And I’ve read her cast page, thank you very much. At best you are reading far more into it than it actually says; at worst you’re just using it as an excuse to try to tear her down. The very first line:
“Dorothy has one goal on her mind: achieve greatness.”
News flash: there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The rest of the paragraph:
“She may just be at some stupid midwestern state college, but if she focuses on her studies and gets the right scholarships and makes the right connections, she’ll be out of here and into Yale before too long. No distractions, Dorothy! No distractions!”
The way this is phrased, it sounds to me like she’s completely aware of how hard she’ll have to work to achieve her goal. There is certainly no indication that she can’t manage it.
I absolutely reject your false (yes, *false*) distinction between aspiration and reality. There is nothing wrong with Dorothy dreaming big, there’s no indication that she’s being unrealistic about what she’ll have to do to accomplish it, and there’s no indication that she doesn’t have what it takes. You’re just reading all of this into her character to give yourself an excuse to be angry at her and tear her down.
Shade Tail: If my analysis comes across that way, it’s only because you’re projecting it onto me. Fact is, she (and not just her: anyone who “dreams big”) can start talking about what they “deserve” when they’ve proven that they do, not when it’s simply an aspiration. This has nothing to do with gender, nothing to do with age. It’s simply that she comes across as feeling that Yale is her rightful place before demonstrating, in any way, shape or form, that she is worthy of it anywhere outside her own mind. Nothing wrong with having big aspirations, but treating others differently because you see them as lesser beings (something I get from her interaction with Ruth, not Danny)? That’s not okay.
If I can’t run a sub five second 40-yard dash, do I deserve to be in the NFL? Even if I feel that I do, until I have proven that I can back up that sense of entitlement with actual skill or aptitude, it’s just in my head. Sadly, reality and aspiration do differ, and the vast majority of people in the world have to settle.
The way this is phrased, it sounds to me like she’s completely aware of how hard she’ll have to work to achieve her goal.
And this is where you and I disagree. I see the cast page entries as meta-data on the characters, so the would-be narrator of the story sees the difficulties, but I don’t see, from her actions and attitude “on-camera” that same awareness.
Mind, this was all raised to play devil’s advocate to a whole bunch of Danny-hate, but you’re not really doing a great job of presenting a counter-argument, mainly because you feel it necessary to make ad-hominem attacks based purely on the gender of the character I’m maligning. I’ll respond to Shift’s arguments somewhat later, but you’ve done a pretty good job of showing me that I want nothing more to do with you.
sreiches: The problem is, you are completely misrepresenting Dorothy. She’s not talked at all about what she “deserves”, nor has she said anything about considering Danny or anyone else “lesser beings”. You’re just putting those words into her mouth, using nothing more than a misrepresentation of the cast page as an excuse.
And that’s the real problem: you’re putting words into her mouth to make her look worse than she really is, and you’re assuming without any reason that she is incapable to living up to her dreams. That is a rather poor attempt to counter-act what you see as “Danny-hate”, whether you’re playing devil’s advocate or not.
Do you “deserve” to be in the NFL?. That’s rather irrelevant to this issue. This isn’t about what you deserve, this is about what you’re working for. If you’re busting chops to train and work at your football game, then it is entirely feasible for you to aspire to that lofty height and be looking forward to it. No, reality and aspiration are *not* different, so long as you are working for it. Again, you have absolutely no reason to think that Dorothy is not fully prepared to work for admission to Yale; that’s just a conclusion you have jumped to without any evidence whatsoever.
And since you bring this up, me pointing out the rather blatant weakness of your argument is not an “ad hominem attack”. In fact, ironically, by falsely accusing me of that rather than actually responding to my argument, *you* are the one indulging in the ad hominem fallacy.
Shade Tail: Ad hominem fallacy is attacking the person rather than the argument. By claiming I’m sexist and bitter, rather than focusing on using relevant evidence from the comic to make your arguments, you have engaged in an ad hominem attack.
In chief: This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.
The cast page, as noted before, was only supporting evidence. The real evidence is her interaction with Ruth. “Yale-bound”, she calls herself. That implies that she is past the point where she is merely aiming for a transfer, and honestly believes that it is a foregone conclusion. That is the attitude of entitlement that started me on this whole spiel.
Worth noting, I am happy to be proven wrong on any occasion, or at least be offered an alternative point of view, but when it comes with a side order of personal attacks and defensive posturing… Well, I’m more than a little closed off. Please try to be more amicable in the future.
Shift: For the sake of argument, I’ve been looking at what Danny says a little differently. First of all, for context, the comic before Ruth breaks things off, he says that “when you’re president or whatever…”: he knows that she wants to do great things, and he wants to be there, supporting her. His actual words when he raises the possibility that she might not go to Yale are:
“And who knows… Maybe you’ll like it here and change your mind about leaving. It could happen.”
There’s a difference between giving up and changing your priorities. One can lead to the other, but giving up is deciding that your original goal was too difficult. Changing your mind can simply be a shift in priorities, or a realization that you don’t want what you thought (case in point, I began college as a Comp sci major, but graduated with a degree in English instead). That’s why I feel that Dorothy is overreacting to Danny. I mean, it could be argued that he should know her well enough to know that she will never, ever consider changing her priorities, but college is a time that’s all about change (and judging from some of the dialogue between other characters thus far, it seems that it’s that very change we’re going to be seeing a lot of).
And yes, you’re right that Dorothy was already planning to break up with Danny when she spoke to Ruth, but then it wasn’t even an issue of whether or not he understood how resolute she was. At that point, it seemed to be more an issue of her planning to leave to go to Yale (and, again, another action of hers that seems to indicate her acceptance to Yale being a foregone conclusion on her part).
In fact, only in her initial appearance does Dorothy seem to express any uncertainty at all about her future.
And Joe… he’s an ass and I kinda wanna smack him in his smug face for being so insensitive to his best friend… but at the same time, I love what he did too. I mean, honestly… this was like his own private disaster film to watch. Everyone could see this coming, except for Danny who was too far into his own little world. I’d probably would have made personal bets on the break-up as well.
I really hate the fact that I’m trying to figure out where on campus this is taking place. Even though it’s probably just an arbitrary fictional sidewalk. It hurts my brain.
Probably the quad in the middle of the college that has paths connecting all the buildings. At least that’s how most colleges work that I’ve been to. 😛
Nah. Campus walkways spiderweb everywhere on every campus I’ve seen. Students keep finding new ways to cut across grass, and then those eventually get pavement as well. Soon every campus will be one huge sea of pavement.
It’s fairly standard now at schools of every level to wait until the students have worn animal trails paths into the grass, then put the sidewalks there. Even if it’s not aesthetically pleasing, the little bastards are just gonna walk there anyway regardless, so you might as well pave those parts.
Good on Joe for this one. Danny needs something to snap him out of the heart ripping Charlie Brown-esque angst parade he was going to start, and Joe just found a way to get him to stop being angsty and start being mad. Anger is good for these sorts of break ups. And honestly? I hope the little skeeze never gets into Yale. Considering her chat with Ruth in the dorms about not wanting Danny there at all, she’s planning on coasting at “the bad school” until she hears from Yale. And that’s a recipe for binge drinking, rampant whoring, and other mistakes that danny will.. of course, get sucked into because he’s a love smitten moron and it will drive whichever one Willis decides wants to bang him in this universe untold angst and delicious tears. I’m rooting for Sal this time.. Joyce not banging Walky seems wrong after so long.
Why would she be coasting? I’ve known a lot of people who haven’t wanted to do/be somewhere they weren’t at the moment, whether that be at a certain school or in a certain major. They CAN’T coast waiting to hear from where they want to be. Their college performance is what dictates whether or not they’ll get in.
And her cast entry states pretty clearly that she has no intention of just coasting.
* sheepishly raises hands
It’s the only thing I don’t like about my Nexus One; damn virtual keyboard is a bongo. (plus the stylus prevents smudges on the screen)
Danny definitely needed this. I don’t know how long his moonin’ went on in Roomies!— which is pretty much always going to feel like the High School Days of DOA to me– but I’m glad it’s getting cut off at the shoot here so he can go on and be an interesting character in his own right instead of just Dorothy’s Shadow.
There’s MUCH hotter women who need a good Joeing about campus. I mean you have Sal to corrupt this time, or Joyce. Either of them could benefit from a damn good Joeing.
If you can’t tell I have a mancrush on Joe and his philandering ways.
I don’t think Joe would be up for Joeing a dude in the way the term is usually meant.
Whether the term works the way you put it, though, would be up for debate. Seeing as Walkyverse!Joe has slept with 2030 women as of 2004 and only 67 of them have expressed regret, it’d be fair to say it’s not an unpleasant experience.
Sheesh, Joe’s got a great sense of timing…comes in as soon as Dorothy’s gone, and called the exact minute. (And Joe has an online “Do” list? Well, somebody’s sophisticated…)
Just the way she talked to Ruth here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/answer/
has me convinced she’s itching to “explore her options” as it were. I know, tis a stretch. But she just has that “I’m going places… Until I snap from the pressure and turn into a party skank” vibe about her.
Wow… someone needs to hurt Joe badly. Emotionally I mean. That said, I am glad that the stalker got dumbed and I hope that he can move on. Characters who fixate on another character to that point are rarely interesting.
I’ve seen this happen a hundred times at my university. At least she dumped him in a private place and not in the middle of a lecture hall while class was in session.
“If Danny really did care about her, then he should have known how important her dream was to her. And he should have supported her rather than ignore her feelings while building up his own dream life. The fact that he clearly didn’t know how important Dorothy’s dream was to her, the fact that he could so easily and blithely dismiss it the way he did, it all goes to show that he didn’t really care. Not really.”
That door swings both ways- one could say Dorothy didn’t care about his dreams either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she shoulnd’t have kicked him to the curb, but I don’t think you can say he didn’t love her. Now, was *he* an idiot for that? U betcha!
Hopefully, Danny will take a lesson from Joe on relationships. Anything else just ends in more misery.
[“That door swings both ways- one could say Dorothy didn’t care about his dreams either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she shoulnd’t have kicked him to the curb, but I don’t think you can say he didn’t love her. Now, was *he* an idiot for that? U betcha!”]
Well, one *could* say that she didn’t care, but I think that if one did say that, then one would be wrong. She tried to talk him down twice just since the beginning of the comic, which shows that she was aware of the issue and sincerely worried. Her mistake was not having the spine to give him the boot earlier, a mistake that she acknowledged quite freely in the last panel of yesterday’s comic.
And I didn’t say Danny didn’t love her, I said he didn’t care. Those are two different things. You can be quite madly infatuated with someone and still be an insensitive clod. I’m hesitant to use the word “love” to describe someone with the maturity of a high school student (and my husband is a high school teacher, so I’ve had more than my fair share of contact with HS kids), but even giving Danny the benefit of the doubt on that score, he was being pretty selfish.
Also, being a professional woman myself, I’m pretty sensitive when it comes to someone telling a woman that her dreams aren’t really all that important.
Well, the way I see it, did Danny even HAVE dreams, other than shacking up with Dorothy? It seemed like he was mostly going to college just to be with her. Even his call-out in this strip seems to reflect that. No one should base their entire life around someone else; they should have dreams and aspirations of their own. Danny pretty much expressed that he wasn’t taking his college life all that seriously.
@sacromentotzar
Joe needs a high five, not to be hurt. Danny needs to learn how things work in college. Also, I don’t think its fair to label Danny a “stalker.” He went to the same college as his girlfriend becuase he ahd the impression they were gonna be long term-and she put off dumping him becuase she was afraid of the conflict.
Well if he was only at this college to follow her without any long term goals or asperations other than “to be with his one true love” then that is sort of stalkerish. I agree that it would be best that he learn how things work and be developed more as a character (as opposed to what I have seen so far in this comic).
I know this is an alternate reality, and there’s a strong chance they’re not the same person…
but am I the only one finding it hilarious that this girl is so sure she’s going to Yale that she’s breaking up with the boyfriend holding her back, when she just ends up working as a cashier at a retail store anyway?
No, wrong on both counts. I meant the hinted at “possible half sister of Amber”. Know how there’s the weird “cool” version of the Shortpacked! store that Mike works at? The cashier that has had pretty much no lines but is simply a blonde Amber?
That’s still not right, though. Amber’s McAwesome’s counterpart isn’t Dorothy. Dorothy comes from “Joyce and Walky!” and is not, in fact, a cashier. (I don’t think? I’ve haven’t read the pay-for “Joyce and Walky!” strips)
Danny was always clingy to the point of being slightly scary, but since Sal was always on the run it wasn’t as apparent in the original universe. Now we get to see what happens when his girlfriend actually sticks around after dumping him.
I’m probably picking nits here, but should it be that dark out? Move-in day seems like it would be late August/Early Sepetember. It’d still be pretty bright out when Joe was proven right.
I actually think Dorothy is a jerk for not dumping him sooner. She’s clearly tired of Danny’s immaturity, and probably hoped that they would drift apart during the long distance relationship she had planned.
I’ve been in a similar situation although at a much younger age (Mine was the transition from middle school to high school). I was literally dumped on the last day of school because she thought if she dumped me any sooner I wouldn’t want to talk to her any more and wouldn’t want to still be her friend. I was about as dumb in that situation as Danny is now, although with less foot-in-mouth, just willful ignorance of all signs that the girl didn’t want to reciprocate.
Good for Joe. Danny lost any right to a ‘Sorry to hear that, dude’ when he ignored Joe’s hints earlier. Life has got plenty more kicks in the face for you, Dan. Time to grow a thicker skin and some common sense.
Oh come on… Joe would have done that even if Danny HADN’T ignored Joe’s hints. It’s Joe. No matter the universe, sensitivity will never be his strong suit.
Danny really channels Charlie Brown in the first three panels, physically. (shaky lip, yell to sky, slouch exasperated.) Most famous example: “DOESN’T ANYONE KNOW WHAT CHRISTMAS IS ALL ABOUT?”
Occasionally there is a Peanuts-y feeling to some of Willis’s strips. The one I always think is a little like that is this one, because of Joyce’s expression and the use of ellipses, and just the way the punchline is in general: http://www.itswalky.com/d/19980209.html
Im sorry, but that was hilarious… I mean poor clingy slightly creepy Danny, but the Joe punchline had me trying my best not to lol since I’m in the library.
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And there’s the moment his soul snaps.
I have a good feeling about his next few years in college. I reckon they’ll all be happy sunshine time.
Is this the part where he decides to study like hell so he can get into Yale as well, or become a womaniser like Joe?
Or maybe this is where he becomes an emo stalker who spends months trying to win her back until the restraining order arrives. 😛
And then he gets CREATIVE about it.
He pays Mike to wear his clothes and stalk her.
I read that as ‘wear _her_ clothes’. Which would be worse.
I read it as “wear her clothes and stalk him.” which would be even worse.
Dick move, Joe.
…Perhaps literally.
JOE IS CLEARLY THE BESTEST FRIEND EVER. 😛
A friend is there to make your feel better when you are in pain.
A BEST friend is there to point at laugh when you are in pain.
Damn, Joe. You are a mighty good friend.
Yep, some definite soul snappage going on here.
That’s what I love about Joe. Even when he picks the absolute worst moment to make a joke, I still laugh because he’s just that shameless.
I love the expressions in this one.
…also Joe is an awesome friend. Totally.
Timing it down to the exact minute IS pretty impressive.
To quote Bart Simpson: “Watch this, Lis. You can actually pinpoint the second when his heart rips in half. Nnnnn…now.”
Joe, I now wanna have your babies.
I’m sure he’d be happy to oblige.
Or rather he’d be happy to oblige at the practice of it. Otherwise he’s running for the hills.
Joe needs to die.
Painfully.
Perhaps something involving sharks with lasers on their heads and/or watching both seasons of Beast Machines back to back.
And I feel bad for Danny. Trying to stay with the girl he loves isn’t a bad thing and she just yanks his heart out, stomps on it and walks off without taking more than two seconds to explain anything.
Way to go girl; ruin his entire life. What do you care?
Both seasons? What kind of inhuman monster are you? No-one deserves that. Okay, maybe M. Night Shyamalan. But other than that?
Agreed. x10.
Oh come on. Ruin his entire life? Puh-leeeeeze. He’s a college freshmen, no older than 18. Of course *he* doesn’t have a sense of perspective right now, but a high school romance isn’t nearly that important. Unless he’s a brainless drama-queen, Danny will get over it and move on.
And I’ll grant you that Dorothy could have been more tactful, but seriously, now. Danny just dismissed her most important life dream as, to use Dorothy’s metaphor, just a child’s game that she would grow out of. Don’t try to pretend that this wasn’t major insensitivity on Danny’s part. Dorothy had every right and reason to be furious about that.
If Danny really did care about her, then he should have known how important her dream was to her. And he should have supported her rather than ignore her feelings while building up his own dream life. The fact that he clearly didn’t know how important Dorothy’s dream was to her, the fact that he could so easily and blithely dismiss it the way he did, it all goes to show that he didn’t really care. Not really.
I agree entirely and is your name an EGS reference?
Ruin his entire life? That seems a bit harsh. It’s a high school romance. He’s going to be mopey and emo for a while, but it’s not like this is the only thing that can and will ever define him.
Unless of course he’s that pathetic of a human being. Then, yeah, his life is over.
And to be fair, would Danny have even listened to her if she tried to explain things to him? I mean, its clear that she has been questioning his actions for months now (ever since he decided to follow her to a specific college, despite her telling him constantly that she won’t be remaining there for more than a year or so), and he constantly brushes her concerns and comments aside as unimportant. He tries to convince her to stay in his ideal “safe zone”, forgo her dreams, and seems to feel their romance will be enough to fulfill her.
I’m pretty sure if she tried to explain things to him again, he’s just keep going on and on about “true love” and “being together forever” ignoring the point she was trying to make.
Dorothy’s approach is hardly ideal for anyone in regards to a break up, but I somehow doubt that anything but a cold, harsh smack to reality would have worked on Danny.
Well, Danny has basically told her that he doesn’t really care about her. He values the relationship; he doesn’t really seem to value Dorothy. If he did, he wouldn’t have told her that maybe her aspirations were just a phase she was going through.
Dorothy hasn’t ruined Danny’s entire life by breaking up with him. Putting her dreams on hold so they could be together, though? That could have messed her life up pretty Even if Dorothy’s hopes do turn out to be unrealistic, they’re still important to her – and she’s never going to know if they are or they aren’t if she doesn’t even try to achieve them.
It sounds to me like Danny’s just told her he doesn’t really want her to try. And that, to my eyes at least, is a bad thing.
Sorry. It’ s just the way she did it simply pisses me off and makes me want to shake her till her teeth fall out.
I don’t know why; just is.
And yea, BOTH seasons of Beast Machines-with every Nightscream episode repeated twice! Then maybe he’ll try to be an actual friend instead of a horn-dog on the make for his next notch.
Possibly because, and I may be jumping at shadows, here, Dorothy’s not a nice person. From what we’ve seen of her character so far, she seems to be convinced of her own sterling destiny. She doesn’t speak of aspirations, she speaks of eventualities. “Yale-bound”, she calls herself.
Let’s see her say that after the realities of college set in, hm?
And I’m not saying that Danny is anywhere near aware enough to make that connection. He was just afraid of losing her and equally convinced that their future was destiny. I don’t, however, see that he told her her dreams weren’t important. He dared to bring up the possibility that she might change her mind and she exploded. He hit upon her major insecurity: that she didn’t get into Yale at first because she’s simply not good enough, and might never be.
Insensitive of him? Maybe. Probably, in fact, but with the way she’s been parading herself around as the next darling child of academia, assured of her own success (in the long run), she needed to be taken down a peg anyway, and they’re both probably better off without each other (him licking her boots and her providing him that consistency from high school).
He didn’t say she might not succeed, he said she might change her mind away from her goals and towards him. Subtle difference, but still a major one.
Which is exactly what I said. I noted, however, that I don’t think she’s just upset about him thinking it’s a phase or, rather, that her annoyance with that comes from the fear that she won’t succeed, which she seems to be keeping bottled up and denying.
I read your post, and all I can see is someone trying to tear Dorothy down. Like this line, for example:
[“She doesn’t speak of aspirations, she speaks of eventualities.”]
There’s no difference between those two, provided you work toward what you aspire. She *can* get into Yale if she puts in the effort.
And if Danny really did care about her, if he really *knew* her, then he would have known how important that dream was to her. And he would have *supported* her and encouraged her, rather than blithely declare that she would just give up some day. You *never* tell people you care about that they should give up on their dreams, you damn well stand by them and tell them that they are capable of doing whatever they want with their lives.
Of course, we ladies are used to having our dreams trampled on by people telling us that we should just get married and be the loving housewife.
No. Aspirations are fine. They drive one to work hard toward them. Dorothy does not aspire to go to Yale, she feels that it’s her right to attend it. That is a very strong distinction. Read the cast page. Her life, right now, consists of a bunch of very powerful “ifs”, getting the right grades being chief among them.
That sure seems to indicate that she didn’t have the grades, or get the scholarships, before now, doesn’t it? If she hasn’t applied herself in the past, is that really going to change now because she says so? And if she has, and still didn’t manage the grades, is that going to change? And if Danny has seen her struggle through that, is it a terrible thing to raise the possibility that maybe the university she’s already at isn’t so bad and, worse comes to worst, she’s at least in college?
Well, yeah. Because he wasn’t saying it for those reasons. He was saying it for more selfish ones, because he wants her to stay with him, but, again, that just means there’s something they need to talk about, not have her overly defensive self dump him and storm off. And, yes, it’s being overly defensive, betraying her own insecurities.
So that’s not so much “should give up” as “might give up” and, like it or not, no amount of effort can work some miracles.
I think you might be splitting hairs. Dorothy aspires to go to Yale. And he motivates herself by saying “I WILL go to Yale”. She might be setting herself up to fail, but she might not be too. I’ve known people like her who say “I’m going to do something” and they do it, because they put the work into it.
It seems like you’re automatically expecting her to fail.
She might not have applied herself for it yet, because she didn’t feel she was ready at that time. Or maybe the school didn’t accept her the first time she applied. Just because it didn’t work out before, doesn’t mean it can’t work out later. A lot of kids do what Dorothy is doing, and they succeed.
Dorothy has been trying to talk to Danny about this for ages. So has his best friend Joe. Danny has refused to listen to either of them, because of the fact he doesn’t want his comfortable world to change.
It seems Dorothy didn’t dump Danny because she was overly defensive like you claim. It seems like something she’s been wanting to do for ages. Hell, she just talked to her RA about it. What Danny said to her however, provoked her to cut right to the chase rather than draw it out, because she knew Danny wouldn’t listen to her, just as he hasn’t been listening to her since the start.
This isn’t about her insecurities. Its about being a relationship with a guy who’s just not right for her, because he doesn’t fully understand what she wants.
Danny’s “might give up” comment confirmed for Dorothy that he doesn’t understand how important this is to her. He thinks its something that can be easily interchangeable with something else. She doesn’t want that.
Although, I meant to also add that Joe’s attempt at talking to Danny about his relationship with Dorothy involved him asking if he could add her to his “DO” list once she broke up with him that night, but still… considering this is Joe, that’s the closest thing you can get in terms of a “Dude, you’re relationship with her is doomed” from him. Which in itself is another big warning sign, I’d say.
sreiches: Absolutely none of that changes the fact that your anger against Dorothy comes across like this:
‘How dare this…this *KID*’ (change ‘KID’ to ‘GIRL’ if you’re really being as sexist as you sound) ‘have dreams above her station!? Well, reality will teach her a lesson soon for getting too big for her britches!’
So yeah, it sure looks to me that you’re getting angry with her for daring to dream big dreams. Apparently, you think she should settle for what Danny had planned for her, whether she liked it or not. That is arrogant, insulting, and something we ladies are all too familiar with.
And I’ve read her cast page, thank you very much. At best you are reading far more into it than it actually says; at worst you’re just using it as an excuse to try to tear her down. The very first line:
“Dorothy has one goal on her mind: achieve greatness.”
News flash: there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The rest of the paragraph:
“She may just be at some stupid midwestern state college, but if she focuses on her studies and gets the right scholarships and makes the right connections, she’ll be out of here and into Yale before too long. No distractions, Dorothy! No distractions!”
The way this is phrased, it sounds to me like she’s completely aware of how hard she’ll have to work to achieve her goal. There is certainly no indication that she can’t manage it.
I absolutely reject your false (yes, *false*) distinction between aspiration and reality. There is nothing wrong with Dorothy dreaming big, there’s no indication that she’s being unrealistic about what she’ll have to do to accomplish it, and there’s no indication that she doesn’t have what it takes. You’re just reading all of this into her character to give yourself an excuse to be angry at her and tear her down.
Shade Tail: If my analysis comes across that way, it’s only because you’re projecting it onto me. Fact is, she (and not just her: anyone who “dreams big”) can start talking about what they “deserve” when they’ve proven that they do, not when it’s simply an aspiration. This has nothing to do with gender, nothing to do with age. It’s simply that she comes across as feeling that Yale is her rightful place before demonstrating, in any way, shape or form, that she is worthy of it anywhere outside her own mind. Nothing wrong with having big aspirations, but treating others differently because you see them as lesser beings (something I get from her interaction with Ruth, not Danny)? That’s not okay.
If I can’t run a sub five second 40-yard dash, do I deserve to be in the NFL? Even if I feel that I do, until I have proven that I can back up that sense of entitlement with actual skill or aptitude, it’s just in my head. Sadly, reality and aspiration do differ, and the vast majority of people in the world have to settle.
The way this is phrased, it sounds to me like she’s completely aware of how hard she’ll have to work to achieve her goal.
And this is where you and I disagree. I see the cast page entries as meta-data on the characters, so the would-be narrator of the story sees the difficulties, but I don’t see, from her actions and attitude “on-camera” that same awareness.
Mind, this was all raised to play devil’s advocate to a whole bunch of Danny-hate, but you’re not really doing a great job of presenting a counter-argument, mainly because you feel it necessary to make ad-hominem attacks based purely on the gender of the character I’m maligning. I’ll respond to Shift’s arguments somewhat later, but you’ve done a pretty good job of showing me that I want nothing more to do with you.
sreiches: The problem is, you are completely misrepresenting Dorothy. She’s not talked at all about what she “deserves”, nor has she said anything about considering Danny or anyone else “lesser beings”. You’re just putting those words into her mouth, using nothing more than a misrepresentation of the cast page as an excuse.
And that’s the real problem: you’re putting words into her mouth to make her look worse than she really is, and you’re assuming without any reason that she is incapable to living up to her dreams. That is a rather poor attempt to counter-act what you see as “Danny-hate”, whether you’re playing devil’s advocate or not.
Do you “deserve” to be in the NFL?. That’s rather irrelevant to this issue. This isn’t about what you deserve, this is about what you’re working for. If you’re busting chops to train and work at your football game, then it is entirely feasible for you to aspire to that lofty height and be looking forward to it. No, reality and aspiration are *not* different, so long as you are working for it. Again, you have absolutely no reason to think that Dorothy is not fully prepared to work for admission to Yale; that’s just a conclusion you have jumped to without any evidence whatsoever.
And since you bring this up, me pointing out the rather blatant weakness of your argument is not an “ad hominem attack”. In fact, ironically, by falsely accusing me of that rather than actually responding to my argument, *you* are the one indulging in the ad hominem fallacy.
Shade Tail: Ad hominem fallacy is attacking the person rather than the argument. By claiming I’m sexist and bitter, rather than focusing on using relevant evidence from the comic to make your arguments, you have engaged in an ad hominem attack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
In chief: This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.
The cast page, as noted before, was only supporting evidence. The real evidence is her interaction with Ruth. “Yale-bound”, she calls herself. That implies that she is past the point where she is merely aiming for a transfer, and honestly believes that it is a foregone conclusion. That is the attitude of entitlement that started me on this whole spiel.
Worth noting, I am happy to be proven wrong on any occasion, or at least be offered an alternative point of view, but when it comes with a side order of personal attacks and defensive posturing… Well, I’m more than a little closed off. Please try to be more amicable in the future.
Shift: For the sake of argument, I’ve been looking at what Danny says a little differently. First of all, for context, the comic before Ruth breaks things off, he says that “when you’re president or whatever…”: he knows that she wants to do great things, and he wants to be there, supporting her. His actual words when he raises the possibility that she might not go to Yale are:
“And who knows… Maybe you’ll like it here and change your mind about leaving. It could happen.”
There’s a difference between giving up and changing your priorities. One can lead to the other, but giving up is deciding that your original goal was too difficult. Changing your mind can simply be a shift in priorities, or a realization that you don’t want what you thought (case in point, I began college as a Comp sci major, but graduated with a degree in English instead). That’s why I feel that Dorothy is overreacting to Danny. I mean, it could be argued that he should know her well enough to know that she will never, ever consider changing her priorities, but college is a time that’s all about change (and judging from some of the dialogue between other characters thus far, it seems that it’s that very change we’re going to be seeing a lot of).
And yes, you’re right that Dorothy was already planning to break up with Danny when she spoke to Ruth, but then it wasn’t even an issue of whether or not he understood how resolute she was. At that point, it seemed to be more an issue of her planning to leave to go to Yale (and, again, another action of hers that seems to indicate her acceptance to Yale being a foregone conclusion on her part).
In fact, only in her initial appearance does Dorothy seem to express any uncertainty at all about her future.
… Don’t know how I typed Ruth instead of Dorothy in that first paragraph. Sorry ’bout that.
…but that was a good show 🙁
How dare fictional characters be young and stupid.
I love Danny’s face in the last panel. Epically priceless.
joe will become popular and successful.
He already is.
Wow, that was real mature Danny.
And Joe… he’s an ass and I kinda wanna smack him in his smug face for being so insensitive to his best friend… but at the same time, I love what he did too. I mean, honestly… this was like his own private disaster film to watch. Everyone could see this coming, except for Danny who was too far into his own little world. I’d probably would have made personal bets on the break-up as well.
I really feel for Danny, even if he was sort of a moron. I’ve been in that position, and it’s not fun.
I really hate the fact that I’m trying to figure out where on campus this is taking place. Even though it’s probably just an arbitrary fictional sidewalk. It hurts my brain.
Probably the quad in the middle of the college that has paths connecting all the buildings. At least that’s how most colleges work that I’ve been to. 😛
Nah. Campus walkways spiderweb everywhere on every campus I’ve seen. Students keep finding new ways to cut across grass, and then those eventually get pavement as well. Soon every campus will be one huge sea of pavement.
Not here at PSU Abington! No, it’s too small and hilly for that to happen here!
It’s fairly standard now at schools of every level to wait until the students have worn
animal trailspaths into the grass, then put the sidewalks there. Even if it’s not aesthetically pleasing, the little bastards are just gonna walk there anyway regardless, so you might as well pave those parts.It’s real!
Looks like Dunn Meadow in front of the IMU to me.
Good on Joe for this one. Danny needs something to snap him out of the heart ripping Charlie Brown-esque angst parade he was going to start, and Joe just found a way to get him to stop being angsty and start being mad. Anger is good for these sorts of break ups. And honestly? I hope the little skeeze never gets into Yale. Considering her chat with Ruth in the dorms about not wanting Danny there at all, she’s planning on coasting at “the bad school” until she hears from Yale. And that’s a recipe for binge drinking, rampant whoring, and other mistakes that danny will.. of course, get sucked into because he’s a love smitten moron and it will drive whichever one Willis decides wants to bang him in this universe untold angst and delicious tears. I’m rooting for Sal this time.. Joyce not banging Walky seems wrong after so long.
Why would she be coasting? I’ve known a lot of people who haven’t wanted to do/be somewhere they weren’t at the moment, whether that be at a certain school or in a certain major. They CAN’T coast waiting to hear from where they want to be. Their college performance is what dictates whether or not they’ll get in.
And her cast entry states pretty clearly that she has no intention of just coasting.
Sssh. Logic has no place in Dorothy-hating.
BTW: Is that a palm pilot or an iPhone that Joe is using? I see the pen tool, but Joe seems more like an iPod kinda guy. Or maybe an Android. 😛
Its a Droidpod
And then the universe implodes from the creation of the ultimate smart phone.
Yeah, it’s kind of weird that someone’s using a device that has a stylus in 2010.
Some people just have pudgy fingers and so can’t use touchscreens without a stylus.
* sheepishly raises hands
It’s the only thing I don’t like about my Nexus One; damn virtual keyboard is a bongo. (plus the stylus prevents smudges on the screen)
I’ve stocked up on spare styluses for the DS. I’m sure that one day no-one will actually sell them. I have about fifteen, just in case.
Shh. He invented it himself. (Just don’t tell the ladies.)
Eh, shouldn’t Joe be using a touchscreen smartphone? Stylus use is so 2003. 😛
But, styluses are phallac! Surely you can see the appeal.
Have you seen how pudgy Joes fingers are? Even his pinky probably activates half the screen.
Danny definitely needed this. I don’t know how long his moonin’ went on in Roomies!— which is pretty much always going to feel like the High School Days of DOA to me– but I’m glad it’s getting cut off at the shoot here so he can go on and be an interesting character in his own right instead of just Dorothy’s Shadow.
NO JOE! Don’t Joe Her!
There’s MUCH hotter women who need a good Joeing about campus. I mean you have Sal to corrupt this time, or Joyce. Either of them could benefit from a damn good Joeing.
If you can’t tell I have a mancrush on Joe and his philandering ways.
Despite how much of an asshole Joe is here, I am impressed by him calling the exact time of the breakup.
A good friend is always there after the breakup. Way to be, Joe!
Danny, Danny, you stupid, clueless, bastard.
I s that what getting “Joe’d” is like for a dude? because I think Danny just got totally “Dude Joe’d”
I don’t think Joe would be up for Joeing a dude in the way the term is usually meant.
Whether the term works the way you put it, though, would be up for debate. Seeing as Walkyverse!Joe has slept with 2030 women as of 2004 and only 67 of them have expressed regret, it’d be fair to say it’s not an unpleasant experience.
Sheesh, Joe’s got a great sense of timing…comes in as soon as Dorothy’s gone, and called the exact minute. (And Joe has an online “Do” list? Well, somebody’s sophisticated…)
Woah. I want those skills. Great for providing comic releif at the right time
Just the way she talked to Ruth here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/answer/
has me convinced she’s itching to “explore her options” as it were. I know, tis a stretch. But she just has that “I’m going places… Until I snap from the pressure and turn into a party skank” vibe about her.
Wow… someone needs to hurt Joe badly. Emotionally I mean. That said, I am glad that the stalker got dumbed and I hope that he can move on. Characters who fixate on another character to that point are rarely interesting.
I’ve seen this happen a hundred times at my university. At least she dumped him in a private place and not in the middle of a lecture hall while class was in session.
That was a rather interesting lecture though…
“If Danny really did care about her, then he should have known how important her dream was to her. And he should have supported her rather than ignore her feelings while building up his own dream life. The fact that he clearly didn’t know how important Dorothy’s dream was to her, the fact that he could so easily and blithely dismiss it the way he did, it all goes to show that he didn’t really care. Not really.”
That door swings both ways- one could say Dorothy didn’t care about his dreams either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she shoulnd’t have kicked him to the curb, but I don’t think you can say he didn’t love her. Now, was *he* an idiot for that? U betcha!
Hopefully, Danny will take a lesson from Joe on relationships. Anything else just ends in more misery.
[“That door swings both ways- one could say Dorothy didn’t care about his dreams either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she shoulnd’t have kicked him to the curb, but I don’t think you can say he didn’t love her. Now, was *he* an idiot for that? U betcha!”]
Well, one *could* say that she didn’t care, but I think that if one did say that, then one would be wrong. She tried to talk him down twice just since the beginning of the comic, which shows that she was aware of the issue and sincerely worried. Her mistake was not having the spine to give him the boot earlier, a mistake that she acknowledged quite freely in the last panel of yesterday’s comic.
And I didn’t say Danny didn’t love her, I said he didn’t care. Those are two different things. You can be quite madly infatuated with someone and still be an insensitive clod. I’m hesitant to use the word “love” to describe someone with the maturity of a high school student (and my husband is a high school teacher, so I’ve had more than my fair share of contact with HS kids), but even giving Danny the benefit of the doubt on that score, he was being pretty selfish.
Also, being a professional woman myself, I’m pretty sensitive when it comes to someone telling a woman that her dreams aren’t really all that important.
Well, the way I see it, did Danny even HAVE dreams, other than shacking up with Dorothy? It seemed like he was mostly going to college just to be with her. Even his call-out in this strip seems to reflect that. No one should base their entire life around someone else; they should have dreams and aspirations of their own. Danny pretty much expressed that he wasn’t taking his college life all that seriously.
@sacromentotzar
Joe needs a high five, not to be hurt. Danny needs to learn how things work in college. Also, I don’t think its fair to label Danny a “stalker.” He went to the same college as his girlfriend becuase he ahd the impression they were gonna be long term-and she put off dumping him becuase she was afraid of the conflict.
Well if he was only at this college to follow her without any long term goals or asperations other than “to be with his one true love” then that is sort of stalkerish. I agree that it would be best that he learn how things work and be developed more as a character (as opposed to what I have seen so far in this comic).
I know this is an alternate reality, and there’s a strong chance they’re not the same person…
but am I the only one finding it hilarious that this girl is so sure she’s going to Yale that she’s breaking up with the boyfriend holding her back, when she just ends up working as a cashier at a retail store anyway?
You’re thinking of Leslie. She’s a Literature Professor here.
More likely thinking of Amber whose current look Dorothy is near identical too.
No, wrong on both counts. I meant the hinted at “possible half sister of Amber”. Know how there’s the weird “cool” version of the Shortpacked! store that Mike works at? The cashier that has had pretty much no lines but is simply a blonde Amber?
Yeah. They look exactly the same.
That’s still not right, though. Amber’s McAwesome’s counterpart isn’t Dorothy. Dorothy comes from “Joyce and Walky!” and is not, in fact, a cashier. (I don’t think? I’ve haven’t read the pay-for “Joyce and Walky!” strips)
…blonde?
http://www.shortpacked.com/2010/comic/book-12/01-dominus-jacobus/revelation/
Amber’s McAwesome’s counterpart (Rose) looks like old Amber and is a redhead, not a blonde. The blonde (Agatha) appears to be Robin’s counterpart.
ah, my mistake then
danny is very much like joyce was originally. i hope he doesnt become as stalkery as she was..
Danny was always clingy to the point of being slightly scary, but since Sal was always on the run it wasn’t as apparent in the original universe. Now we get to see what happens when his girlfriend actually sticks around after dumping him.
I believe Joe is thoroughly deserving of a high five about now. Smug bastard that he is, that was some masterful timing there.
Also, sweet, Mike avatar.
This feed sounds interesting, I wish to subscribe to it.
Seconded. Or at least give Joe a twitter account.
I’m probably picking nits here, but should it be that dark out? Move-in day seems like it would be late August/Early Sepetember. It’d still be pretty bright out when Joe was proven right.
Also, is RSS still a thing?
Well, this comic has an RSS link, sooooo…
I actually think Dorothy is a jerk for not dumping him sooner. She’s clearly tired of Danny’s immaturity, and probably hoped that they would drift apart during the long distance relationship she had planned.
I’ve been in a similar situation although at a much younger age (Mine was the transition from middle school to high school). I was literally dumped on the last day of school because she thought if she dumped me any sooner I wouldn’t want to talk to her any more and wouldn’t want to still be her friend. I was about as dumb in that situation as Danny is now, although with less foot-in-mouth, just willful ignorance of all signs that the girl didn’t want to reciprocate.
She should, definitely, have been explicit earlier – as she admitted in the last strip.
But hurting someone accidentally by trying not to hurt them isn’t being a jerk, it’s being wishy-washy to the point of dumb.
Good for Joe. Danny lost any right to a ‘Sorry to hear that, dude’ when he ignored Joe’s hints earlier. Life has got plenty more kicks in the face for you, Dan. Time to grow a thicker skin and some common sense.
Oh come on… Joe would have done that even if Danny HADN’T ignored Joe’s hints. It’s Joe. No matter the universe, sensitivity will never be his strong suit.
And that’s why we love him.
Danny really channels Charlie Brown in the first three panels, physically. (shaky lip, yell to sky, slouch exasperated.) Most famous example: “DOESN’T ANYONE KNOW WHAT CHRISTMAS IS ALL ABOUT?”
Occasionally there is a Peanuts-y feeling to some of Willis’s strips. The one I always think is a little like that is this one, because of Joyce’s expression and the use of ellipses, and just the way the punchline is in general: http://www.itswalky.com/d/19980209.html
I go to Yale, and this is my favorite comic of all time! 🙂
Joe’s insensitivity is gold! Danny’s hip face just enhances the moment.
Seriously, Joe is such a dick. Why do people like him? I do not understand.
“I call this the soul crusher!”
Im sorry, but that was hilarious… I mean poor clingy slightly creepy Danny, but the Joe punchline had me trying my best not to lol since I’m in the library.
This is hilarious in every way.